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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2006 :  18:05:54  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A badly corroded bronze device, found by Greek sponge divers in 1900 off the tiny island of Antikythera, is revealing more and more surprises about the ancient world's technical prowess. The device is now thought to have been crafted around 150 to 100 BC.


The bulk of the Antikythera Mechanism on display

What has come to be called the "Antikythera Mechanism" is being revealed as a very finely machined astronomical analog computer, capable of predicting the motions of the sun, moon, and all the planets known to the ancients. The device even took into account the elliptical orbit of the moon, and was capable of pointing to likely lunar and solar eclipses.

New research using X-ray tomography is showing that the mechanism contains gear wheels of a much higher quality than was previously thought the ancients could produce.


Computer-generated image of how the front and back
of the Antikythera Mechanism may have once appeared


[Edited fix one image, and to strike dead link]. Here's a link to CNN's article from Reuters. And here's another from LiveScience.

The group studying the Antikythera Mechanism plans to create a working model. I can't wait for commercial versions to be mass-produced!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/12/2007 06:20:13

Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  06:00:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apparently, occording to the most recent print copy of Archeology Magazine (Can't locate it on their website) they have been able to "interactively re-light" the inscriptions, and increase the number of legible characters from 923 to 2,160. It turns out the inscriptions are an instruction manual.

Pretty cool. Still no word on it's origins, other then being found on a ship coming from Rhodes.

Peace
Joe
edit in bold
Edited by - Original_Intent on 02/16/2007 23:58:43
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  06:21:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the update, OI! It must really feel rewarding to work on that thing!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/12/2007 06:21:54
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2007 :  00:05:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Quick rundown:
2,200 years old.
7 main and 75 smailler fragments.
30 gears with between 15 and 223 triangular teeth.
It appears to function according to the theories of Hipparchus, founder of a schhol of astronomy on Rhodes.
ARMP insists it be called a calculator, because it can add and subtrat, but can't be programmend.

It looks like you killed the livescience link when you edited itLiveScience is down.

Joe
Edited by - Original_Intent on 02/17/2007 00:07:14
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2007 :  01:20:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it was built to operate based upon a Rhodian theory, then it seems likely the ship it was on was outbound from Rhodes, probably taking it to someone for use in astrology, probably a rich someone. (I believe most astronomy in ancient times was done for the purpose of "refining" astrology.) And it's possible that it was actually made from bronze salvaged from the Colossus of Rhodes, which was destroyed by a quake in 224 BC, and was laying about in pieces for many centuries.

Antikythera was a pirate base up until Pompey the Great finally defeated the pirates. Could be the ship sank in a battle with them.

The Mechanism must have been bound for a wealthy customer. Not to the Ptolemies in Egypt, though, but to someone further west, as in the growing Roman Republic in -- and beyond -- Italy. Makes one think. My guess is that it was bound for Rome.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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freewest4ever
New Member

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2007 :  10:43:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send freewest4ever a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Antikythira Mechanism is an elaborate hoax.

The Ancient Greeks were skilled in Pure Mathematics and philosophy. They were not engineers (the Romans were) and they were not warriors (the Macedonians and Illyrians were).

The device was a Roman navigational tool, nothing more.

Stop the Lies.

Free Macedonia
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2007 :  11:05:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The greeks were adept at making all sorts of mechinisms, quit talking out your ass.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
quote:

Ctesibius or Ktesibios or Tesibius (working 285222 BC) of Alexandria (Greek #922;#964;#951;#963;#943;#946;#953;#959;#962;) was an inventor and mathematician in ancient Greece. His contributions to mathematics and science are second only to Archimedes. He wrote the first treatises on the science of compressed air and its uses in pumps (and even a cannon). This, in combination with his work on the elasticity of air On pneumatics, earned him the title of "father of pneumatics." None of his written work has survived, including his Memorabilia, a compilation of his research that was cited by Athenaeus.

Ctesibius was probably the first head of the Museum of Alexandria. Very little is known of his life and work. It is said (possibly by Diogenes Laertius) that his first career was as a barber. During his time as a barber, he invented a clever counterweight-adjustable mirror. His other inventions include the hydraulis, a water organ that is considered the precursor of the modern pipe organ, and an improved water clock called a clepsydra. The clepsydra kept more accurate time than any clock invented until the Dutch physicist Christiaan Huygens detailed the use of a pendulum to regulate a clock in the 17th century. The principle of the siphon has also been attributed to him.

According to Diogenes Laertius, Ctesibius was miserably poor. Laertius details this by recounting the following concerning the philosopher Arcesilaus:


quote:
Heron
steam turbine (50/62/70) (aeolipile) -
the first recorded steam engine, (known as Hero's Engine) which was created almost two millennia before the industrial revolution, which was powered by steam engines. Apparently Hero's steam engine was taken to be no more than a toy, and thus its full potential not realized for centuries.

The first vending machine was also one of his constructions, when a coin was introducted via a slot on the top of the machine, a set amount of Holy Water was despensed. This was included in his list of inventions in his book, "Mechanics and Optics".

Hero also invented many mechanisms for the Greek theater, including an entirely mechanical play almost ten minutes in length, powered by a binary-like system of ropes and knots.

In Optics, Hero formulated the Principle of the Shortest Path of Light: If a ray of light propagates from point A to point B within the same medium, including any number of reflections on plane surfaces, the path-length followed is the shortest possible. Fifteen centuries later, this principle was generalized by Fermat to include the case of refraction at the interface of two different media, and was expressed in the statement that the time taken by the light ray is minimal as compared with neighbouring paths.


and of course Archimedes the Great Whose accoplishments are too plentiful to paste, but certainly there would be few Roman engineers if he did not exist.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 03/07/2007 11:13:05
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4953 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2007 :  11:26:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by freewest4ever

The Antikythira Mechanism is an elaborate hoax.

The Ancient Greeks were skilled in Pure Mathematics and philosophy. They were not engineers (the Romans were) and they were not warriors (the Macedonians and Illyrians were).

The device was a Roman navigational tool, nothing more.

It's a little unfair to paint a rather large swath of people with such narrow strokes, no? I know nothing of the device, but I doubt that it's possible to judge its origins based on such stereotypes as the ones you posit here.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2007 :  14:20:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by freewest4ever

The Antikythira Mechanism is an elaborate hoax.

The Ancient Greeks were skilled in Pure Mathematics and philosophy. They were not engineers (the Romans were) and they were not warriors (the Macedonians and Illyrians were).

The device was a Roman navigational tool, nothing more.

Welome to SFN, freewest4ever.

Okay, certainly the Romans took engineering much further in terms of practical applications, especially with their massive aqueducts and roads. But they built upon the skills of the Classical and Hellenistic Greeks, and may indeed have lost some of the Greek knowledge over the years.

Saying the Greeks were not warriors is just plain silly. Tell it to the 300 Spartans!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/07/2007 14:32:10
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/07/2007 :  15:46:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
The Ancient Greeks were skilled in Pure Mathematics and philosophy. They were not engineers (the Romans were) and they were not warriors (the Macedonians and Illyrians were).



The most intelligent and skilled warriors at the time were the Greeks!

To reiterate what Half said: Remeber the Spartans. (legend and exxagerations aside, these guys were the premiere warriors of the known world at the time)


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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freewest4ever
New Member

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  02:31:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send freewest4ever a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 300 Spartans were Dorians. Contrary to the propganda that has been taught in schools for so long, the Dorians were NOT Greek. The Ionians (as in Athenians) were Greek. The Dorians were related to the Illyrians and the Macedonians, and so are directly ancestors of the modern Macedonians and Albanians, which explains their ferocity and skill in war.

The Greeks were skilled at philosophy and homosexual love, and are extinct as a result. The modern Greeks are a buncj of Ethiopians. Don't believe me? Check out this link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&

THe Greeks did not invent the Antikythira mechanism, the Romans did. I rest my case.

---------------------

Stop the Lies!

FREE MACEDONIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop the Lies.

Free Macedonia
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  03:10:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by freewest4ever

The 300 Spartans were Dorians. Contrary to the propganda that has been taught in schools for so long, the Dorians were NOT Greek. The Ionians (as in Athenians) were Greek. The Dorians were related to the Illyrians and the Macedonians, and so are directly ancestors of the modern Macedonians and Albanians, which explains their ferocity and skill in war.

The Greeks were skilled at philosophy and homosexual love, and are extinct as a result. The modern Greeks are a buncj of Ethiopians. Don't believe me? Check out this link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&

THe Greeks did not invent the Antikythira mechanism, the Romans did. I rest my case.

---------------------

Stop the Lies!

FREE MACEDONIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let us not be too hasty in assigning the creation of this remarkable artifact.
quote:
Origins
The origins of the mechanism are unclear, as are the circumstances by which it came to be on the cargo ship. The ship was Roman, but there is no doubt that the mechanism itself was made in Greece.

One hypothesis is that the device was constructed at an academy founded by the ancient Stoic philosopher Posidonius on the Greek island of Rhodes, which at the time was known as a centre of astronomy and mechanical engineering. Investigators have suggested that the ship could have been carrying it to Rome, together with other treasure looted from the island to support a triumphal parade being staged by Julius Caesar. [1]

Welcome to SFN freewest4ever!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  03:24:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by freewest4ever

The 300 Spartans were Dorians. Contrary to the propganda that has been taught in schools for so long, the Dorians were NOT Greek. The Ionians (as in Athenians) were Greek. The Dorians were related to the Illyrians and the Macedonians, and so are directly ancestors of the modern Macedonians and Albanians, which explains their ferocity and skill in war.

The Greeks were skilled at philosophy and homosexual love, and are extinct as a result. The modern Greeks are a buncj of Ethiopians. Don't believe me? Check out this link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&

THe Greeks did not invent the Antikythira mechanism, the Romans did. I rest my case.

---------------------

Stop the Lies!

FREE MACEDONIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well this comment certainly has a hint of some ethnic conflict underlying it.

Modern Greeks are Ethiopian? Did it not dawn on you ancient Greeks were as well? What did I miss?

And I sincerely doubt you could find any population that has gone extinct due to homosexual love. That's absurd on it's face.


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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  03:45:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well freewest4ever, you certainly seem to have a profound, almost fascistic nationalist bias of some kind about this issue. But you rested your case a bit early considering the Antikythera Mechanism. In fact, you gave us not one iota of evidence that it was not of Greek origin, only a firm assertion. Hand-waving is not evidence, nor is a sense of racial or national superiority, or sexual bigotry.

Likewise, your unevidenced claim that Spartans are not Spartans seems a bit odd, to put it mildly.

The claim that the Greeks were sub-Saharan Africans is interesting but is surely not well supported by most scholars. If they are from that area, it is interesting that they, like the Macedonians, spoke an Indo-European language, not a language in the Afro-Asiatic language group. Their pantheon resembled those of other early Indo-European peoples, not the animists of sub-Saharan Africa. (The ancient Greeks were also, judging from much surviving Greek artwork, a rather pale-skinned people to have come from Ethiopia.) I get the strong impression that your assertion of African origins for the Greeks is meant to demean them, and thus implies a racist attitude toward Africans in general. All that's interesting, if bizarre and rather revolting, but it has nothing at all to do with the Greek origins of the Antikythera Mechanism.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/21/2007 03:55:12
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25713 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  06:50:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by freewest4ever

The Greeks were skilled at philosophy and homosexual love, and are extinct as a result. The modern Greeks are a buncj of Ethiopians. Don't believe me? Check out this link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&
That abstract supports the assertion "modern Greeks are Ethiopians" just as well as it supports the assertion "modern Macedonians are Jews." Or do you consider yourself French, freewest4ever?

Of course, archeological finds tell us that we're all from sub-Saharan Africa, so along with being Libyan, freewest4ever, you're also Ethiopian.

Oh, and given the time period mentioned in the abstract, the Greeks who were skilled in philosophy are probably the same Greeks you consider to be Ethiopian. How could they be extinct if you acknowledge their existence?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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freewest4ever
New Member

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  06:56:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send freewest4ever a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Evidence in a form that you would accept is impossible to come by when academia is dominated by people who have been placed in their positions not because of their knowledge, but because of their servility to their Philhellenic masters.

All you need to do is look at the people of the area. Who are active, agressive, proud and pure, and who are degraded, and corrupt, and perverted?

You know the answer, though you may be afraid to admit it.

Needless to say I will not be posting again on this board of crypto-communists.

Stop the Lies.

Free Macedonia
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