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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 17:21:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
We show that reconnection is fast and electromagnetic energy is converted into heating and acceleration of particles. This has significant implications for laboratory and astrophysical plasmas where both turbulence and reconnection should be common.
"Electrical" reconnection happens all the time and Alfven describes the process. Indeed *ELECTROmagnetic* energy is converted into heat, but astronomers keep neglecting that ELECTRONIC part of that equation.
Again, this comes down to trying to hold a magnetic field in light plasma. You can't "store" magnetic energy in plasma, it doesn't hold any. You can *transfer energy* through plasma and generate magnetic fields and high temperatures. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 17:32:44 [Permalink]
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Here's a few quotes from that article:
quote:
"Reconnection in such an environment of irregular magnetic fields could be thought to be sporadic, but this is not the case.
So in other words, their theory completely failed to "predict" the behaviors they found.
quote:
For this particular magnetosheath crossing, a very large number of other thin current sheets was found where reconnection is very likely to occur, a subject currently under investigation by our team," says Alessandro Retiṇ lead author of this study, PhD student at the Swedish Institute of Space Physics, Uppsala, Sweden.
This is called "induction". Anytime you pass a charged particle passed a fixed magnetic field you get induction currents. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2007 : 18:24:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
Show me an example of "reconnection" in plasma using fixed magnets and no electricity.
*Sigh* |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 18:26:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
Here's a few quotes from that article:
quote:
"Reconnection in such an environment of irregular magnetic fields could be thought to be sporadic, but this is not the case.
So in other words, their theory completely failed to "predict" the behaviors they found.
quote:
For this particular magnetosheath crossing, a very large number of other thin current sheets was found where reconnection is very likely to occur, a subject currently under investigation by our team," says Alessandro Retiṇ lead author of this study, PhD student at the Swedish Institute of Space Physics, Uppsala, Sweden.
This is called "induction". Anytime you pass a charged particle passed a fixed magnetic field you get induction currents.
So either these people are so stupid that they're actually talking about electric currents and the don't even know it, or something else is going on. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 18:53:16 [Permalink]
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| Something else is going on, Cune. Michael doesn't want to admit that the currents that everyone else (including Alfven) are talking about are simply charged particles moving around within a plasma, generating magnetic fields, which induce other currents, which create other magnetic fields (and so on). Michael really really really wants all this talk of "current" to mean big sparks like lightning. It's the only way for his resistive heating idea to get anywhere close to the observed temperatures in the corona. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 06:45:16 [Permalink]
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I still never had my first question answered, WHERE THE HELL DID ALL THE IRON COME FROM? Considering that you yourself claimed that the first stars in the universe had iron shells, why dont you start from the beginning and work your crapothesis out in detail for us. You have rewritten every single idea in modern astronomy yet have provided NOTHING to support any of it except some extreme speculation.
P.S. "It was there from the beginning" is a shit answer and not acceptable. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 08:07:50 [Permalink]
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| Michael also (as noted in a post or two above) wants to stay out of the iron sun debate. I think it's an unavoidable topic, but there's no point delving into it now. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 08:25:51 [Permalink]
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If I'm correct about the "electrical current" issue (and I've got high confidence that I am), then the iron shell is all that Michael would have left to distinguish himself from the mainstream on the subject of the Sun.
Well, that and his denial of the majority of the evidence for oscillating neutrinos. And his denial of the evidence in favor of "Big Bang" theory. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 08:27:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
If I'm correct about the "electrical current" issue (and I've got high confidence that I am), then the iron shell is all that Michael would have left to distinguish himself from the mainstream on the subject of the Sun.
Well, that and his denial of the majority of the evidence for oscillating neutrinos. And his denial of the evidence in favor of "Big Bang" theory.
I was asking about that last night in chat, but it got lost in the shuffle about cigars. Explain what you mean about current. How is this distinct from electricity? What are we talking about here? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 09:54:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I was asking about that last night in chat, but it got lost in the shuffle about cigars. Explain what you mean about current. How is this distinct from electricity? What are we talking about here?
There is no distinction. If you have moving charged particles, you've got what is technically an electrical current. Electrical currents generate magnetic fields. And moving magnetic fields can make charged particles move (inducing a current).
Michael, however, is focused on the word "discharge." In lightning, a huge build-up of charge occurs within a cloud until the point that the charge breaks down air's insulating properties, and a giant "spark" occurs. That huge current is a "discharge" of the charge in the cloud. Michael wants us to think that all of the activity we see in the Sun's corona is due to discharges of built-up electrical potential. Really huge sparks.
But the modern theory is that about 200,000 km beneath the Sun's photosphere, there's an area where the radiant transport of heat from the core switches over to convective transport. This switch-over causes large differences in how the plasma above and below behave, and those differences plus the rotation of the Sun itself give rise to large amounts of "shear" between the two "sets" of plasmas. In effect, you've got two groups of charged particles moving in opposite directions relative to each other, which leads to a "dynamo" effect generating - in the Sun's case - a massive magnetic field.
And if the Sun's plasmas were all perfectly homogeneous, the magnetic field we would see would be "flat" and stable. But the plasmas aren't perfectly homogeneous - some parts are denser than others, or contain a charge imbalance - and those imperfections, over time, give rise to even more mammoth magnetic-field loops which rise up from the dynamo, spanning upwards of 300,000 km. These magnetic field loops move through the plasma, causing all sorts of electrical currents (without discharges), and those currents in turn cause magnetic fields, which induce other currents, and so on.
So the whole thing is just a mish-mash of electromagnetic fields in all sorts of different directions. Electrons get "trapped" by magnetic field lines and spiral around them, throwing off synchotron radiation while becoming a "field-aligned current." Differences in plasma density cause differences in resistivity, which with the help of strangely-formed magnetic fields give rise to "double layers." All sorts of really bizarre stuff is going on up there.
But Michael wants us to think that all of it is due to what is, in effect, gigantic lightning bolts leaping from point-to-point on a big iron sphere. The sphere is necessary for the "discharges," because otherwise there'd be nothing to create a build-up of charge. Even then, because plasmas have very low electrical resistance, Michael has to propose an insulating layer of calcium, since otherwise again there'd be no charge build-up.
And bizarrely, Michael thinks that astronomers and solar scientists completely ignore the "electro" part of "electromagnetism" when looking at the corona. But nobody can do anything with magnetohydrodynamics (MHD) without it. It's as if he thinks the people doing all this research today just give lip-service to MHD and Alfven. But MHD depends upon Maxwell's equations, which describe the relations between electricity and magnetism. A solar scientist who ignores electricity will get completely wrong answers, if he can even solve the equations at all.
Michael appears to be fixated upon "discharges" only because Birkeland (sort of) and Bruce described things that way. (Whether Alfven did or not will have to wait.) He's just taken decades-old descriptions of weak hypotheses about the Sun and run with them, ignoring what actual solar scientists are doing today and why. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 10:50:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
Show me an example of "reconnection" in plasma using fixed magnets and no electricity.
*Sigh*
Sigh? |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 11:03:07 [Permalink]
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Dave, that was a helluva post! Very clear and succinct. You da man.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 11:06:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
Show me an example of "reconnection" in plasma using fixed magnets and no electricity.
*Sigh*
Sigh?
Right, because I'm sort of tired of the use of rhetorical challenges-- "if you have a better idea, let's here it!" "Show me X!" Or Y or Z. It's neither interesting nor compeling. Check the link. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 12:31:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Something else is going on, Cune. Michael doesn't want to admit that the currents that everyone else (including Alfven) are talking about are simply charged particles moving around within a plasma, generating magnetic fields, which induce other currents, which create other magnetic fields (and so on).
I readily admit that. What are you talking about?
quote:
Michael really really really wants all this talk of "current" to mean big sparks like lightning. It's the only way for his resistive heating idea to get anywhere close to the observed temperatures in the corona.
Yes, and it's the only way to explain those temperatures inside of coronal loops in the atmosphere of the sun, *PERIOD*. That's why I accept the role of electron flow Dave, even though you keep trying to sweep it under the carpet. I'm sorry Dave, but those coronal loops stick out like giant sore thumb, and your denial of the role of electron flow isn't making them go away. |
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New "Impossible" findings on the Sun
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