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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2008 : 03:48:18 [Permalink]
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On a related matter:
By DENNIS OVERBYE
Published: June 17, 2008
There is a lot of new territory out there in the cosmos, but nothing you would want to pitch camp on — yet.
About a third of all the Sun-like stars in our galaxy harbor modestly sized planets, according to a study announced Monday by a team of European astronomers.
At a meeting in Nantes, France, Michel Mayor of the Geneva Observatory and his group presented a list of 45 new planets, ranging in mass from slightly bigger than Earth to about twice as massive as Neptune, from a continuing survey of some 200 stars.
All of the planets orbit their stars in 50 days or less, well within the corresponding orbit of Mercury, which takes 88 days to go around the Sun, and well within frying distance of any lifelike creatures.
Among the bounty is a rare triple-planet system of “super-Earths” around the star HD 40307, about 42 light-years away in the constellation Pictor. The planets are roughly four, seven and nine times the mass of Earth and have orbital periods of 4, 10 and 20 days, respectively.
Dr. Mayor called the discoveries “only the tip of the iceberg” in a news release from the European Southern Observatory in Garching, Germany.
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There. That oughta get 'em slavering at a fluttering street light, and a bit of ball lightning might start a new religion!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2008 : 07:33:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Perro, you quote the esteemed Robert Todd Carroll as saying....| A UFO is an unidentified flying object that has been identified as a possible or actual alien spacecraft. Such objects include meteors, disintegrating satellites, flocks of birds, aircraft, lights, weather balloons, and just about anything moving within the visible band of electromagnetism. So far, however, nothing has been positively identified as an alien spacecraft in a way required by common sense and science. That is, there has been no recurring identical UFO experience and there is no physical evidence in support of either a UFO flyby or landing. |
How can anything that is unidentified simultaneously be identified? As soon as a UFO is identified, it no longer is a UFO, rather it becomes an IFO!
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Yes. I saw the contradiction as well. That´s why I posted it.
Originally posted by bngbuck
Far too many have made up their minds that either there is no such thing as a true UFO, or else "so what?" And far too many others are certain that all UFO's are indeed occupied by "greens" or "greys" and no other explanations are even feasable!
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Exactly! That´s the problem I often perceive when I hear a discussion about UFO´s.
Cheers! |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 10:05:10 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
| I'd guess that Carroll was distinguishing UFOs from UAPs |
Then you would transpose Carroll's statement to read:| A UFO is an unidentified flying object that has been identified as an example of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. Unidentified Aerial Phenomena are possible or actual alien spacecraft |
That obviously doesn't cut it. I guess I don't understand what you mean.
Perhaps that Carroll was establishing a definition of UFO's as specifically alien spacecraft, leaving open other explanations for other unidentified aerial phenomenena? In that case, the acronym should be FOIAAS (Flying Object Identified as Alien Spacecraft - even though there has never been such an identification.
Obviously, I don't understand what you are suggesting, but I attribute it to my obtuseness.
Maybe OFSOOMA (Object Flying Straight Out Of My Ass). Works for me!
How about this for a re-write:
A UFO is an unidentified flying object that has been identified by the crackpots as a possible or actual alien spacecraft. |
Well, there is a certain , er....attitude, hovering about that statement but your use of the word identified explains it! Yes, to finally separate, by definition, UFO from UAP would be a good thing! Until (if ever) evidence of extraterrestrial origin is produced, I would suggest:| A UFO is an unidentified flying object that has been mistakenly identified as an actual alien spacecraft, as no evidence to substantiate it's alien origin has been produced. |
| In other words, as soon as we assume the aliens have what would be, to us, technology so far advanced that it's indistinguishable from magic, then none of the four categories could possibly exclude alien visitation because, well, the aliens know magic! |
Absolutely! Therefore there is no way for me to differentiate you from a genuine green alien except the greenness - not even that (I have no photo, you know, but I sure could use another clue) Perception is reality, as we agreed a short time ago, Dave! Remember?
Has anyone, living or dead, actually ever seen you, Dave? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 10:44:42 [Permalink]
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Yes, the perceived you!
I have been thinking about the green hypothesis, and it really seems to have a lot of merit - you appear to be remarkably like Topsy, and green is frequently associated with growth; aliens are always green unless they are grey or another color; you inspire emotions that are tinged with virescence, you may well be Kil's doppelganger which has been described as green in youth and innocence; there is some likelihood that you are Filthy's dead twin, who is very green by now; your attitude frequently brings to mind Peter Parker's nemesis, the Green Goblin; and green screens are frequently used for special effects!
Can you be perceived by night-vision equipment?
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 10:49:14 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
| and well within frying distance of any lifelike creatures. |
No wonder they're cruising over here to Earth in large numbers! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 10:59:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Can you be perceived by night-vision equipment? |
I don't know. I've never tried to have a heart-to-heart with any night-vision cameras to see if I could glean any sort of insight into what they perceive. I am certain, however, that humans can perceive me while using night-vision cameras. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:56:08 [Permalink]
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Real Skeptic.....
| There have been a number of these studies, most famously Blue Book (USA) and GEPAN. GEPAN Report to the Scientific Committee, June, 1978: "In 60% of the cases reported here (Type D Phenomena), the description of this phenomenon is apparently one of a flying machine whose origin, modes of lifting and/or propulsion are totally outside our knowledge." Similar conclusions can be arrived at for the Blue Book special report 14 type D cases. |
To my mind, a great deal of additional investigation is indicated for many of the GEIPAN and Blue Book unexplained cases! Nobody is interested, (or funded - as Simon accurately points out) to do this work.| what it does show is that there is much more to the phenomena than unidentified lights in the sky. |
I feel that may be true for some of the LITS cases.| Obviously from a Skeptical point of view the first thing to do is to realise that we Humans work by constructing mind maps on which to make decisions - however the Map is not the territory and our mind maps are certainly extremely low grade. |
This commentary raises large philosophical and psychological issues that have recently been dissected here. Suffice to say that perception, and consequently "reality", lies in the mind of the perceiver!| As a real died in the wool skeptic I find the UFO's are lights in the sky which cas be explained stance highly improbable and at odds with the evidence. |
Some lights in the sky have been explained very satisfactorily, some have not! And evidence is the decisive factor in defining believable explanation!However this does not man that the Alien Spacecfarft theory is proved however is does seem to have sufficient evidence to warrant further investigation.
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Agreed on both points! But - how investigate - the existence of alien spacecraft? Not an easy task! | casual dismisall of the evidence is certainly naieve and foolish - Psudo skeptics such as J Randi, M Shermer and the late P Klass make themselves look complete idiots on this subject due to there total failiure to address the evidence in a mature way and scientific way. |
(You might want to proofread your posts, RS)
No, RS, the gentlemen you name are professional skeptics and they quite honestly do not have the time for in-depth investigation of the unexplained cases. Joe Nickell would be a better possibility. If UFO/UAP phenomena became a big-deal in the media and popular perception as it was throughout most of the fifties (I was there), all of the professionals would be writing and investigating furiously!
As of June, 2008, hardly anybody really gives a shit except for the "true believers" - and most of them are completely nuts! I personally know Randi's view - not anything that really can be scientifically tested, sounds crazy, enjoy your delusion. I have communicated with Shermer. His comment is,"How much lack of evidence do you want?" I never talked to Klass, he was a dedicated debunker of UFO events, and did commendable work showing up a number of frauds.
But remember, RS, all of the professional skeptics have an extremely high vested interest in the non-existence of "alien" evidence. Skepticism is what they do for a living. And, right now, it's pretty hard to make a living by revisiting UFO/UAP events that have already been declared "unexplained" by competent investigators. That "unexplained" works for them! Lots of things are "unexplained" Far better to concentrate on things that appear inexplicable but actually have a mundane explanation! Gotcha! getsya gelt in the debunking profession! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:57:11 [Permalink]
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Can you be perceived by night-vision equipment?
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Or mirrors?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 14:37:31 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
I don't believe you. Would you post a picture of you taken by a night-vision camera? Or a picture of your image in a mirror? In color?
Dave, for Christ's sake (exclamatory, immune from nitpicking) we have issues to settle here. This is a matter of your very existence. You don't want to fuck around with that, do you? Jesus (same disclaimer), do something for #1. I mean you might just pop off suddenly and where would that leave Kil and Mabuse and all the legions of moderators and administrators and mentalmasturbators like me that depend on you! Don't abandon us, Dave, if you pop off the Quad, we may follow!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 04:07:38 [Permalink]
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And then, there's this: A Chinese company has developed a prototype flying saucer that can hover in the air and be controlled remotely from afar, state press said Tuesday.
The aircraft is 1.2 metres (four feet) in diameter and is able to take off and land vertically and hover at an altitude of up to 1,000 metres (yards), Xinhua news agency said.
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What fun!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 06:40:22 [Permalink]
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| The unmanned disc is driven by a propeller and can be controlled remotely or sent on a preset flight path |
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So, that would make it some kind of weird-shaped helicopter?
Not sure about the design... Do you think it serves some kind of purpose?
It looks pretty slick in either case. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 07:58:27 [Permalink]
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Yes, doesn't it? As it's a prototype, I would think that they might have 'most any or many purposes for it. It would largly depend on it's cargo capasity. Crop-dusting comes to mind just offhand; also short-range, bulk package delivery.
I think that they should fly it over Roswell, NM some cloudy evening....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 08:17:07 [Permalink]
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Bill:
But remember, RS, all of the professional skeptics have an extremely high vested interest in the non-existence of "alien" evidence. |
How do you mean that? Many skeptics support SETI. For years I had SETI at home. How cool would it be to have something of great interest to the researchers show up on your own computer screen? (Not that we mere mortals would know what it was. But the SETI folks would tell us if that happened.)
Visitations are another thing. And while there have been sightings that remain unexplained, that does not mean we are not interested in them. But if forced to draw a tentative conclusion about them, in all likelihood, those objects are likely not of alien origin, which is based on a number of factors. Logistics being one main problems. That's to say the distances an alien ship would have to travel to get here, which translates into the time it would take them to get here seems rather impractical, at least from our frame of reference.
I think most skeptics would be thrilled to find evidence that supports actual visitations by intelligent beings. But so far, we must keep our skeptics hat on based on the evidence so far available for consideration.
Edited to add: It's also possible that I have misunderstood, and what you are saying is that skeptics are simply doing their job which RS doesn't really understand.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 09:18:40 [Permalink]
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bng said:
| But remember, RS, all of the professional skeptics have an extremely high vested interest in the non-existence of "alien" evidence. Skepticism is what they do for a living. And, right now, it's pretty hard to make a living by revisiting UFO/UAP events that have already been declared "unexplained" by competent investigators. That "unexplained" works for them! Lots of things are "unexplained" Far better to concentrate on things that appear inexplicable but actually have a mundane explanation! Gotcha! getsya gelt in the debunking profession! |
Bill, in order to "revisit" those things... you'd need a good reason. Like new evidence.
What is the point of looking at old radar images or blurry low res pics from the 60s and 70s? What new data do you think could be gleaned from them?
I've said this before... pick a spot that has a lot of "UAP sightings", set up a radar instalation and point an array of telescopic HD cameras at the sky. Add in a high res HD nightvision camera a well...
... if you think it would be worth the effort. You'd undoubtedly draw a lot of attention, probably of the "pointing and laughing" kind.
But really, with the ubiquitous nature of video cameras in todays world, you have to explain to me why we don't already have some high rez images of these "UAP".
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Does UFO now mean "Alien Spaceship"?
