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That's the one, Dude, and it seems to have proven the concept. Someone needs to take the next step and build a facility next to a landfill, and just start siphoning the trash out.

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According to a study published in June by the Worldwatch Institute, for Brazil to produce 10 per cent of its entire fuel consumption requires just 3 per cent of its agricultural land, so it's not surprising other places want to emulate Brazil's approach. The problem is that in most other countries, the numbers don't add up.

The same Worldwatch study estimated that to meet that 10 per cent target, the US would require 30 per cent of its agricultural land, and Europe a staggering 72 per cent.

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Saying that, the cellulose ethanol Dude talked about gave, in Roel meta-analysis, rE's of more than 4.40 - now there's something to develop further. More bang for the buck - less negative consequences overall.

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Originally posted by Dude

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Well, the Chinese themselves have developed a wind turbine that can generate power at lower windspeeds than conventional wind turbines.

Maglev wind turbine

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The main issue with wind power in China appears to be that there are very few Chinese companies that make wind turbines. This means that the tech support and parts have to be imported, adding to the cost.

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As with the rest of the world, the initial cost of building wind farms, and the associated cost of running them, is still a barrier.

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Kinda like plasma TVs. 15 years ago they cost $15k for a 42in TV. Now you can buy a 50in plasma TV for $2000.

As more people adopt the tech, the price will fall.

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We can have green energy, but only if we insist on it from our elected officials.

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Originally posted by filthy

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Not to mention the fact that we are slowly losing our #1 crop pollinator, the Italian honey bee. There's lots of conjecture as to the cause, but no hard science on it yet. The cell phone radiation hypotheses looks pretty good but it's not yet established.

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(I take a smug satisfaction in that I don't have a cell and entertain no ambitions to acquire one. As far as I'm concerned, they're an unnecessary menace to navigation.)

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Isn't this fun?

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So, there are a lot more factors involved than just warming, and I'm not at all sure that we even know what many of them are.

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the warmer it gets, the more the fishing's gonna suck.

As I stated before, "We're fucked."

I don't think we need to be fucked over this, but we'll see to it that we are.

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Boy, and Dave W. said that I had a fatalistic attitude.

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Originally posted by filthy

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Boy, and Dave W. said that I had a fatalistic attitude.

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A cynicism born of long observation of, and experience with, people...

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Originally posted by Bill scott

[quote]The answer is that the cause of MMGW becomes a laughing stock and a mockery when many of it's most public supporters ride around in private jets and live in mansions, all while preaching personal sacrifice to anyone but themselves. The cause is not helped anymore when the many of it's grassroots folks who are pushing for the cause don't make any personal sacrifice, themselves, for the cause. They want those who are skeptical of MMGW to make all the sacrifices while they, who claim to believe this hoax, make none. Good luck with all that.

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Originally posted by perrodetokio

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Then if a priest preaches morality and then abuses a child, does that mean that we shouldn't mind child abuse, that is not a problem?

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I mean, if some of the people that tell you child abuse is wrong practice it themselves, then what?

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Or killing (killing in the name of: Alah, Jesus, Belzebub, whatever).

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Just what is your point?

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Originally posted by Bill scott



My point is that, IMO, Al Gore and John Travolta flying around the country in their private jets and maintaining mansions where they probably hardly ever sleep, all while preaching personal sacrifice to the masses in the name of MMGW is resulting in the cause of environmentalism to become a political and divisive issue among groups who, I believe, really want the same thing when you get to the core of it. As I pointed out, being a conservative I am not drawn to environmentalism because of a lecture from John Travolta or a preaching from Al Gore on the theory of MMGW. I am drawn to environmentalism and alternative energy by the facts of $3/gallon gasoline in the wake of fat CEO's from Exxon getting 400 million dollar bonus. I am drawn by the fact that China is producing one new coal fired power plant every week to 10 days. I am drawn by the fact that India is fast on their coattails. You want a united front for environmental issues between conservatives and liberals then push clean air, clean water, and the end of middle east oil dependency and I am willing to wager the vast majority of conservatives will be right on board with you. IMO, to get this united front Al Gore needs to placed in time out.

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[i]Originally posted by [b]perrodetokio[/b

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I can imagine why some people see Al Gore's enviromentalism as propaganda, and maybe they're right and he's a hypocrite. HOWEVER that does not make the FACTS expounded by him false.

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Are you doubts about AL Gore himself

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or Global Warming?

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And what about pollution in general,

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I don't like G.W. Bush, but if he began giving speeches about how bad global warming is and what to do to combat it, that would not make me discard the issue just because he's a hypocrite.

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Edited to add: Maybe the solution is for non-political organization to tackle the issue. But then groups like Greenpeace has been labeled as lefty, tree-hugging cooks at best and as hypocrites at worst.

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There's a tendency in U.S. government (at least when republicans govern) to label any group that voices concerns contrary to theirs as "anti-US", "Communists", "Terrorists", "Freedom-haters", etc.

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And I am not talking about groups who strap bombs to themselves or crash planes into buildings.

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I walk to work, cycle anywhere not so near and take public transportation to places far away. I have been doing that for 17 years now.
So what's your point, Bill?

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Scientist says cremation should meet a timely death
Published: Wednesday April 18, 2007

An Australian scientist called Wednesday for an end to the age-old tradition of cremation, saying the practice contributed to global warming.

Professor Roger Short said people could instead choose to help the environment after death by being buried in a cardboard box under a tree.

The decomposing bodies would provide the tree with nutrients, and the tree would convert carbon dioxide into life-giving oxygen for decades, he said.

"The important thing is, what a shame to be cremated when you go up in a big bubble of carbon dioxide," Short told AFP.

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Originally posted by Hawks

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Originally posted by Siberia

And yesterday there was on the news a new method for turning animal and vegetal fat into biodiesel. Pretty cool, pity I have no english sources of it.

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That would seem to be a REALLY bad way of getting our fuel. It is already doubtful that growing crops for the purpose is going to have any significant effect, so adding another trophic level to the mix (and losing about 90% of the energy in the process) would, at a first glance, seem like madness.

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