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Roddy
New Member

Panama
48 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  03:32:49  Show Profile  Visit Roddy's Homepage Send Roddy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Through youtube, I saw the ABC Nightline Debate between atheists and christians.

I made my conclusions:

(1) Kirk Cameron is probably a retard.
(2) Atheists need better debaters.

Kirk Cameron's best argument against atheists is the banana. He says a banana was designed specially for humans because it is easy to peel off, and this is engineering at its finest.

I guess he forgot that a banana can also be used to practice oral sex. A sin.

And he should try using a coconut to prove the existence of a ultimate designer. Let's see if he can peel that one off.

During the debate, he tries to prove evolution by showing paintings of transition fossils that haven't been found:

(1) A sheepdog: a transition fossil connection a sheep and a dog. And this animal is a dog with the torso of a sheep.

Does he know that a sheepdog is actually a hairy dog? Not a transition fossil, but a real animal? I guess not.

(2) A bullfrog: a transition fossil between a bull and a frog. The painting showed a frog with horns.

Reality check: a bullfrog is a fat frog. Not a transition fossil but a real animal.

If Christians don't know this, and they swallow his crap, they must be detached from God's creations, really.

One of the atheist debating him was female. Her breasts were so big, they were almost the size of her head. Fortunately Kirk Cameron didn't notice this perfect symmetry. There was evidence of God right there.

A woman in the audience asked one of the Christians what kind of designer creates cancer. And the guy says cancer is part of human misery, for we live in a "fallen creation."

A good debater would've used that "fallen creation" argument to end that debate right there. Imagine an engineer who builds an entire building and then it collapses in one or two days. That's "literally" a "fallen creation". The guy is saying that God is a bad designer, not even realizing it. A bad designer is no better than things happening by chance.

The christian started the debate by showing a painting and saying it had to be made by a painter, and not by chance. But such painting isn't exactly an example of a "fallen creation" or a "creation going wrong". Maybe he should have shown the crowd a painting of a flower surrounded by dirt and spots and try to prove there's a painter behind it.

_________________________________________________
http://www.twismor.com







filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  04:11:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Roddy!
(2) A bullfrog: a transition fossil between a bull and a frog. The painting showed a frog with horns.


Perhaps this is the "bullfrog" he had in mind:



This is typical creationist tripe; all red herrings and strawmen. You seldom get a decent debate on evolution from them because bullshit is all they have. They actually study that crap and work on making it sound reasonable, at least to people knowing even less than they. Debating them is usually an exersize in futility.

Kent Hovind is/was a master of this sort of thing. He used to put forth so much utter crap so rapidly that his opponent simply couldn't keep up; couldn't give a reasoned respnse due to lack of time.

The technique is called "The Gish Gallop'" after Duane Gish, who perfected it, and it works.

But it won't work in a written debate, where there is time for considered responses. Which is why creationists fare so poorly in here.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  04:51:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to SFN, Roddy, and thank you for the well-considered debate review. Next time, you represent the atheists, okay? I'm off to find it on YouTube now...



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Roddy
New Member

Panama
48 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  05:42:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Roddy's Homepage Send Roddy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, I am good in written debate, but I suck in oral debate. In fact, I think I'd strangle Kirk Cameron if I ever debated him, and it wouldn't look nice for atheists. As soon as he shows me his painting of a crocoduck (half duck, half crocodrile), I am thinking of throwing him down a helicopter.

I might do well if you give me tranquilizers though.


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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  06:02:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ho-kay, I watched it. My impression differs from Roddy's (except yes, they are as big as her head): The atheists kicked ass totally. Both Cameron and Comfort looked entirely beat-up after the debate. They needed something better than their usual idiotic fare for their NYC studio audience. They both came off looking like the fools they are.

Comfort's promised "scientific proof of God without reference to the Bible" turned out to be nothing more than his repeated assertion that things look as though they were made by a Creator. That dull-witted sophistry didn't work in the debate, earning nothing but derision. Cameron, for his part, indeed does appear to be intellectually challenged.

Let this debate be an example of how to handle such theists people in live debate. No more being afraid of the Gish Gallop. Yes, we atheists and skeptics do even better in print, but if the audience is not heavily stacked against us, we can win! Well-informed atheists, if they are swift and sharp, can beat these folks in any fair debate.

Another point: Even if the Rational Response Squad folks had lost the debate, it would have been a net gain, due to how deeply low atheism is regarded in this country. Because it would have been the first time a lot of people were exposed to their ideas at all.

But, dammit -- they outright won!




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/11/2007 06:05:19
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Roddy
New Member

Panama
48 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  06:57:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Roddy's Homepage Send Roddy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Part of the problem for these two Christians was the fact that they were in New York, not a place like Kansas. No offense intended, but New York is tougher for christians than let's say Alabama.

Edited by - Roddy on 05/11/2007 06:58:05
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  07:03:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Roddy

Part of the problem for these two Christians was the fact that they were in New York, not a place like Kansas. No offense intended, but New York is tougher for christians than let's say Alabama.


Hey, we Alabamians only like the two good kinds of Christians - Evangelicals and Fundamentalists! The rest are just heretics who will be slow roasted on the Rotisserie of the Devil!

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Roddy
New Member

Panama
48 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  07:06:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Roddy's Homepage Send Roddy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do roasted heretics taste like bullfrogs or crocoducks?
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  07:10:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Roddy

Do roasted heretics taste like bullfrogs or crocoducks?


Actually, more like a platypus.




by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  07:16:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Part of the problem for these two Christians was the fact that they were in New York, not a place like Kansas. No offense intended, but New York is tougher for christians than let's say Alabama.


The audience was evenly split, by design. 50% were in possession of a functional brain, the other 50% were creationists.

And yes, Kirk Cameron is retarded. Ray Comfort (that has to be a stage name) also seems to be intellectually impaired. There is no other plausible explantion for their cartoonish insitance that such things as a half cat/half dog creature (CatDog) should exist in the fossil record.

Such blatant misrepresentations can only really be explained as deliberate deceptions. They know full well that the ToE does not predict, nor require, the existance of such chimerical creatures. These two shills-for-god must rely on such strawmen though, because they do not have any legitimate criticism of the ToE.

The irony of lying to promote their god is, obviously, lost on them.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  08:16:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude
The irony of lying to promote their god is, obviously, lost on them.
My opinion, after the banana thing, is that these two guys really are idiots. I think they are being perfectly honest which in their case may be worse than lying. At least a liar has a clue...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Roddy
New Member

Panama
48 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  08:18:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Roddy's Homepage Send Roddy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think they should have used that atheist girl in the debate as a perfect example that God is real.

Two breasts, and they are exactly the size of her head. You don't get that kind of symmetry in real life.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  08:42:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by Dude
The irony of lying to promote their god is, obviously, lost on them.
My opinion, after the banana thing, is that these two guys really are idiots. I think they are being perfectly honest which in their case may be worse than lying. At least a liar has a clue...
No, they're being dishonest! Comfort already conceeded that the banana argument fails if only because the modern store-bought banana has its shape and flavor through generations of human-guided selection.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  08:42:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kil said:
My opinion, after the banana thing, is that these two guys really are idiots. I think they are being perfectly honest which in their case may be worse than lying. At least a liar has a clue...


I'd be depressed if I thought any member of the human race who was free from developemental/genetic abnormalities (or brain injury) was actually that stupid.

I can accept that truly ignorant people will believe their arguments, but that is the point. The ignorant are their target audience. These two shills are lying to try and get converts.

Because more converts = more money in the church till.

Anyone who has thought about this as much as these two obviously have cannot possibly (I hope) be convinced by the arguments they present.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  10:49:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Roddy

I think they should have used that atheist girl in the debate as a perfect example that God is real.

Two breasts, and they are exactly the size of her head. You don't get that kind of symmetry in real life.
Ok, I have GOT to have the You Tube link that shows the debate!

Ok, never mind. I think I've been able to find it myself. I've never been to You Tube before. Too bad I don't have internet at home. I'd like to at least watch it.


By the way, did the atheists mention any real transitional forms by way of the Talk Origins website?

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 05/11/2007 10:51:17
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Roddy
New Member

Panama
48 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2007 :  01:21:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Roddy's Homepage Send Roddy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kirk Cameron showed the chimera paintings in the O'Reilly Factor. And O'Reilly told Cameron he beat Richard Dawkins in a debate because Dawkins couldn't answer the question "Where did everything come from?" So... O'Reilly is another moron. Either these two guys swallow the idea that scientists do believe in these chimeras, or they are targeting the morons who watch that show in order to convert a few idiots.



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