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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2007 : 19:35:22 [Permalink]
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| I guess I'm invisible? |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 19:48:47 [Permalink]
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| I just wanted to see others opinions which will provide direction to the conversation. |
Facts would lead a conversation in much better directions than opinion.
If an opinion is all that maters I could, for instance, say that home schooling churns out retards unprepared for real-world challenges. If I don't need to support this statement then it's as good as the one you started this topic with. And since it came from me it's a hell of a lot better from where I'm standing.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 19:55:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist---
Taxes are so high that dual incomes are in most cases necessary in america.
With two workers there is no one to home-school.
Home schooling allows the state to enter the home to a variety of degrees depending on the state. |
I find your first proposition to be absurd. Are taxes (income? property? utility? sales?) higher now than they were ten years ago? What about twenty? Thirty? Can you correlate tax rates (again-- which kinds?) with home school rates? Or are you just making unfounded assertions to support some grand conspiracy?
As for the second-- it's so vague as to have no meaning.
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As for the second---In some states, the state can literally enter the home to find if education is being done correctly.
As for the first---Do you deny that two incomes in most cases are necessary in the economy that has been created over the last several decades?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 19:58:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Kil---I agree, inflation is also a cost in American society that makes it necessary for two incomes.
Removing the backing of currency from real value causes inflation , but thats another topic.
High taxes and inflation combine to necessitate dual incomes where only one was needed in the past; thus the need is created for state education as no one is in the home to educate. |
What "high taxes?" The U.S. enjoys a pretty low tax rate compared to the rest of the world. To get a better deal, you'll have to move to Japan, Hong Kong or, now, Russia (13% flat tax at the moment). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 21:22:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
As for the second---In some states, the state can literally enter the home to find if education is being done correctly. |
And I'm sure you have multiple examples from various states to show this. Moreover, I'm sure that the examples you cite are completely irrational and hve no basis in fact.
| As for the first---Do you deny that two incomes in most cases are necessary in the economy that has been created over the last several decades? |
Actually, I asked you for the data. If you can't support your own assertions (it sounds like you've done no research and are going on knee-jerk reaction), then why make the argument?
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| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/19/2007 21:31:16 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 22:39:42 [Permalink]
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Dave---I am not comparing taxes.
I am stating the current environment of American society.
And besides your link only compares income and social security tax making it invalid to your point.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 22:50:14 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---" I'm sure that the examples you cite are completely irrational and hve no basis in fact."
www.pacificjustice.org/resources/articles/focus.cfm?ID=ART513510669
This is a legal defense group designed to help with government intrusion to the home.
Why would a legal defense fund be necessary if it was not needed?
Just to keep things clear; I do not home school, and was educated in public schools.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 22:50:42 [Permalink]
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I went through public school, for a while, and then to work at age 14. Didn't have to, but did anyway.
My kids went through public school and are doing very well.
My grandkids went, and are currently going, through public school and have no problems beyond the usual. Fortunately, these were and are some of the better schools.
Our public school system needs both great improvement and firm protection. Teachers should be well paid and held to a high standard. Religious idiologies such as Creationism and Intelligent(?) Design, should not be tolorated in any other than a Religious Studies class, and then discussed objectively along with other views of the Worship of Nonsense. And so forth.
What's all the whining about taxes in aid of, anyway? Nobody wants to pay taxes, right?. We all want a strong military, but we don't want to pay taxes. We all want reliable police and fire departments, but we don't want to pay taxes. We want education for all in schools that employ top notch teachers, but we don't want to pay anything for them. We want a competent government to serve us, but as the Flying Spagetti Monster is our witness, we ain't gonna pay no more for it than we have to. We want all of these dedicated people to work for free, or, better yet, get someone else to pay them.
And so, we let right-wing shitpots slime their way into government without rioting in the streets 'cause they're gonna cut taxes -- who knew they'd do it so selectivly?
Anyone who'd been paying attention over the last few decades and remembers when the dementia-afflicted git, Reagan, wanted cheap ketchup packets listed as a school lunch vegetable, that's who.
Don't bitch about the public schools, JEROME, because you and I and the rest of us made them what they are today. Instead, get out and do something about it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/19/2007 22:58:41 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 22:53:49 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist--- "Actually, I asked you for the data."
I would assume we would all agree that the two income household is common in America; and that it is uncommon to home school or private school.
Do you really need data to prove this?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2007 : 22:54:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist---" I'm sure that the examples you cite are completely irrational and hve no basis in fact."
www.pacificjustice.org/resources/articles/focus.cfm?ID=ART513510669
This is a legal defense group designed to help with government intrusion to the home.
Why would a legal defense fund be necessary if it was not needed?
Just to keep things clear; I do not home school, and was educated in public schools.
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Say what?
JEROME, slow down and think before making such statements. they tend to detract from your point, and give me a chuckle. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/19/2007 22:55:50 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 22:58:01 [Permalink]
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Filthy---He asked for evidence of government coming into the home
I provided evidence.
This is not the point.
I am reading your last post and will respond.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 23:07:43 [Permalink]
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Filthy---"What's all the whining about taxes in aid of, anyway?"
I do not mind paying tax; it is the payment for living here.
The point is most families have to; based on the current societal structure, in most cases teach their children in government schools.
Paying tax is not the point.
"Instead, get out and do something about it."
In the last days of Rome no man could stop the catastrophe.
Besides I am doing something; talking to you about it.
I propose no solutions; only information for the willing.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 23:51:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| There's a distorted view of history of the US but that's about the most propaganda I can think of. |
There is? Such as?
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George WA chopped down a Cherry tree, Lincoln walked miles in the snow to return a penny, history of Columbus is whitewashed, what was in your history books about Am Indians, Custer, etc, what did you learn about the last 100 years of US interference in Chile, Argentina, the Middle East etc etc etc.
Do you honestly think kids get the real history of this country in primary school?
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 05/19/2007 23:52:08 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 00:33:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist--- "Actually, I asked you for the data."
I would assume we would all agree that the two income household is common in America; and that it is uncommon to home school or private school.
Do you really need data to prove this?
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As a single father, I raised two daughters on a blue-collar income. If anyone thinks that's easy, I suggest that they try it. Decent public schools were my salvation.
Home schooling is done quite a bit, at least in this area. My younger daughter home schooled one of my younger grandsons for a year due to him not doing well in his particular class. Today, some 4 years on, he is doing very well, so home schooling works for more than just the religiously insane.
As I recall, she had to take some sort of course herself, but this is a far cry from the state kicking down the door.
Yeh, I'd like to see the data.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 06:30:24 [Permalink]
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Jerome wrote:
| Taxes are so high that dual incomes are in most cases necessary in america. |
Are you kidding? Two incomes are necessary for a variety of reasons, primarily that women joined the workforce during the women's liberation movement, flooding the job market and to some degree driving down wages. Of course the main reason is changes in the economy and the loss of high-paying manufacturing jobs that made one-income middle class families more possible. And as Kil mentioned, money doesn't go as far as it used to for things such as higher education and health care. The idea that both parents have to work because of high taxes is absolutely absurd. The economy has been getting worse for the majority of Americans since the 50's. Inflation is certainly a factor since we see it going up in all that time. Do we see taxes steadily going up from the 50's until now? Nope. So it doesn't make sense to call that a major factor, if a factor at all.
| Home schooling allows the state to enter the home to a variety of degrees depending on the state. |
So does having any standards for child care and laws against child abuse.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Compulsory Government Education
Topic Locked
