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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2007 :  06:12:36  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This has been making the rounds this morning, so I thought I'd pass it on here:
President Bush, without so much as issuing a press statement, on May 9 signed a directive that granted near dictatorial powers to the office of the president in the event of a national emergency declared by the president.
I'm not sure I'm convinced of this guy's interpretation of the directive, but perhaps it's just the legalese. Thoughts?

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2007 :  06:32:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pfft, so what Jordin Sparks won American Idol! Now thats top-story worthy.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2007 :  12:18:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Source Watch Summary
According to the Federation of American Scientists, the "text of PDD-67 has not been released, and there is no White House Factsheet summarizing its provisions." [1] A summary can be found here and here.
(see link for links)

Bush Anoints Himself as the Insurer of Constitutional Government in Emergency; May 18, 2007 By Matthew Rothschild; The Progressive
With scarcely a mention in the mainstream media, President Bush has ordered up a plan for responding to a catastrophic attack.
In a new National Security Presidential Directive, Bush lays out his plans for dealing with a “catastrophic emergency.”

Under that plan, he entrusts himself with leading the entire federal government, not just the Executive Branch. And he gives himself the responsibility “for ensuring constitutional government.”

He laid this all out in a document entitled "National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD 51" and "Homeland Security Presidential Directive/HSPD-20."

The White House released it on May 9.

Other than a discussion on Daily Kos led off by a posting by Leo Fender, and a pro-forma notice in a couple of mainstream newspapers, this document has gone unremarked upon.


The Daily Kos - The mechanisim to end democracy? by leo fender; Thu May 10, 2007
So I'm admittedly conspiracy minded when it comes to this administration, but with that said, I read something just now that makes my blood chill.

Seems that there has been a plan since the Regan administration to maintain a distributed "shadow" government that would set itself up in the event of a "decapacitating" attack on Washington, i.e., a nuclear attack.

Follow me to the flip and I'll tell you how I think this plan is being reworked to provide the mechanism to end democracy in the United States . . .


This government gets scarier still. And where is the news coverage???? A secret directive, no less.


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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2007 :  13:09:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just when I thought that I was out, they pull me back in. Do I have to brush off my old "A secret dictatorship?" rant?

I can't read the PDF's, because my computer refuses to install the PDF reader from Adobe. (A Vista problem?) The few quotes about the executive order are baffling to me. Daily Kos' take on it is rather terrifying.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2007 :  13:09:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The EOs, PDDs, FPCs, NSPDs, and HSPDs are a load of BS. One needs entirely too much time on their hands to bring a coherent structure to the enterwining of them. That in itself is the conspiracy......

The KOSters need to look at Carter too.....

Just more furnace fuel. Not that what anyone thinks matters. They all want the constitution usurped in one way or another, as long as it is "their" issue.

Peace
Joe

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Boron10
Religion Moderator

USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2007 :  16:05:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Boron10 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by beskeptigal

This government gets scarier still. And where is the news coverage???? A secret directive, no less.
Though I might agree with you in spirit, the news media are solely to blame for this one, since the White House has placed it on their website! There is no "secret directive" in this one. If this administration wants to take over, they're doing it very blatantly.
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2007 :  17:32:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Boron10...

There is no "secret directive" in this one. If this administration wants to take over, they're doing it very blatantly.
Well...
From the directive...

(24) Security. This directive and the information contained herein shall be protected from unauthorized disclosure, provided that, except for Annex A, the Annexes attached to this directive are classified and shall be accorded appropriate handling, consistent with applicable Executive Orders.
... there appear to be undisclosed classified attachments to the directive. What do you suppose is in them? Wouldn't you like to know?
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2007 :  02:14:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As GeeMack points out, the actual contents of this directive are not public. Only the fact something was signed modifying the previous directive initiated by Reagan. I can't easily find something similar signed by Reagan. Perhaps someone else has a source. I did find the following:

Executive Orders and National Emergencies: How Presidents Have Come to "Run the Country" by Usurping Legislative Power; by William J. Olson and Alan Woll; 1999; CATO Institute
William J. Olson heads a McLean, Virginia, law firm that focuses on constitutional, administrative, and civil litigation. Alan Woll is an attorney in Blevins, Arkansas.

Executive Summary

During the recent presidential scandals, concluding with the impeachment of President Clinton, many people were heard to say that the investigations should end so that the president could get back to "the business of running the country." Under a constitution dedicated to individual liberty and limited government--which divides, separates, and limits power--how did we get to a point where so many Americans think of government as embodied in the president and then liken him to a man running a business?

The answer rests in part with the growth of presidential rule through executive orders and national emergencies. Unfortunately, the Constitution defines presidential powers very generally; and nowhere does it define, much less limit, the power of a president to rule by executive order--except by reference to that general language and the larger structure and function of the Constitution. The issue is especially acute when presidents use executive orders to legislate, for then they usurp the powers of Congress or the states, raising fundamental concerns about the separation and division of powers.

The problem of presidential usurpation of legislative power has been with us from the beginning, but it has grown exponentially with the expansion of government in the 20th century. In enacting program after program, Congress has delegated more and more power to the executive branch. Thus, Congress has not only failed to check but has actually abetted the expansion of presidential power. And the courts have been all but absent in restraining presidential lawmaking.

Nevertheless, the courts have acted in two cases--in 1952 and 1996--laying down the principles of the matter; the nation's governors have just forced President Clinton to rewrite a federalism executive order; and now there are two proposals in Congress that seek to limit presidential lawmaking. Those developments offer hope that constitutional limits--and the separation and division of powers, in particular--may eventually be restored.



You have to wonder what the Heritage Foundation has to say about GW Bush's executive orders. Here, they were certainly critical of Clinton's.

Here we have Reagan's Reign of Secrecy Shortchanging the Public on Information; by Ralph Nader; 1986.

Who knows? This could be nothing more than some routine procedure, or it could be Bush's plan to invade Iran and suspend the '08 elections. Some of my friends thought Nixon was going to declare Martial Law. I thought they were wrong, and they were. But this crowd is even more unscrupulous than Nixon.





Edited by - beskeptigal on 05/25/2007 02:15:13
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2007 :  06:51:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This could be nothing more than some routine procedure, or it could be Bush's plan to invade Iran and suspend the '08 elections.


That is an unfounded concern. These people are not competent enough to occupy Iraq, there is no way they could occupy the US. The word "insurgency" would be inadequate to describe the chaos that would follow any suspension of national elections.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2007 :  08:55:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

This could be nothing more than some routine procedure, or it could be Bush's plan to invade Iran and suspend the '08 elections.


That is an unfounded concern. These people are not competent enough to occupy Iraq, there is no way they could occupy the US. The word "insurgency" would be inadequate to describe the chaos that would follow any suspension of national elections.


Yes, setting up an American dictatorship would be a blunder by any measure, and an ultimate failure. But, Dude your own words, with their mention of Iraq, hint at just how stupidly adventuristic these NeoCon Bushies are.

I don't think they'll try the dictatorship. After the November elections were not thrown by massive fraud, I feel they demonstrated they simply don't have the guts to pull off the final putsch.

But I can't honestly say that I think the odds are minuscule. The proven track record of this Administration is so starlingly bizzare that one would have to be crazy not to be a little paranoid. This new executive plan seems to be at least an option they are considering.

Which remains terrifying enough all by itself.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/25/2007 20:20:03
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2007 :  06:42:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But I can't honestly say that I think the odds are minuscule. The proven track record of this Administration is so starlingly bizzare that one would have to be crazy not to be a little paranoid. This new executive plan seems to be at least an option they are considering.



They don't need to pull off some coup... the democrats have proven this last week that they are no different than the republicans.

The coup, apparently, has already been staged and completed.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular

Australia
800 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2007 :  07:00:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit JohnOAS's Homepage Send JohnOAS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

I can't read the PDF's, because my computer refuses to install the PDF reader from Adobe. (A Vista problem?)

I've installed Acrobat Reader 8 on a handful of Vista machines with no problems with basic view/print operations. Version 8 doesn't have official Vista approval yet, like about 98% of the known software/hardware universe.[/unsolicited tech support]

John's just this guy, you know.
Edited by - JohnOAS on 05/28/2007 07:00:36
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2007 :  08:31:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bush will not use these powers, Hillary will.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2007 :  19:25:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Bush will not use these powers, Hillary will.
What made you come to this conclusion?

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2007 :  19:55:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Bush will not use these powers, Hillary will.
What made you come to this conclusion?


Years of studying and watching American politics; the two parties work together, leaving precedent and powers to the next. I have been predicting hillary becoming president before she ran for Senator.

Read about Rome and you will see the future of America!



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2007 :  20:04:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Bush will not use these powers, Hillary will.
What made you come to this conclusion?


Years of studying and watching American politics; the two parties work together, leaving precedent and powers to the next. I have been predicting hillary becoming president before she ran for Senator.

Read about Rome and you will see the future of America!
It's one delusional paranoid fantasy after the other!! You certainly weren't the first person to predict that Hillary might one day run for President; indeed, the wing-nut fringe has been smearing her for years just to try and stop that from happening.

However, it's unlikely that-- were the to win-- she'd be nearly as covert and lawless as this administration has been. Beyond pure speculation and fantasy, there's no indication that any of the Democratic candidates would be as sinister as this President has been.
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