|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2007 : 23:33:43 [Permalink]
|
Dude, how is talking about energy production trolling?
|
By making imbecilic comments like this:
The question I have if energy is finite and energy conversion always loses energy that would mean at some point energy would cease to exist.
This also bring into question were did energy start?
|
Did you miss out on basic HS science classes? Are you really unaware of the law of conservation of mass and energy?
I'm going with no, and that you are just trolling.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
| Edited by - Dude on 06/09/2007 23:34:24 |
 |
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 23:42:08 [Permalink]
|
Dude, answer the questions in your own words and prove you are not a troll.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 23:59:38 [Permalink]
|
Jerome said:
Dave, yes, but a more transportable from of energy. Breaking the bond of water and using its parts.
|
Come up with a way to do this that doesn't require more energy in than can be generated by the combustion of the products, and you will win a Nobel prize for discovering new physical laws that displace the current ones.
But don't count on it. Go take a basic chemistry class and learn a bit about chemical bonds and the potential energy they contain.
The bond dissociation energy of water is ~914 kJ/mol (energy required to break the hydrogen atoms off of the oxygen atom). The combustion of 2 moles of hydrogen in air(the amount you get from breaking the bonds of 1 mole of water) will yeild ~282 kJ.
So good luck.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 00:00:41 [Permalink]
|
Dude, answer the questions in your own words and prove you are not a troll.
|
Bite me, troll-boy.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 00:20:14 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, yes, but a more transportable from of energy. Breaking the bond of water and using its parts.
|
Hydrogen has the potential to act like a battery, as a chemical storage medium for energy produced by (rather expensive and inefficient) hydrogen production elsewhere. Fuel cells are such "batteries," in essence, just as lead-acid or lithium-polymer cells, and even flywheels or tanks of pressurized air can act as batteries in the broad sense of being portable power repositories. On earth, there is no need to carry the oxygen created by electrolysis about, as it is an approximately 20% constituent of the atmosphere all around us. Modern fuel cells can work with stored hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen
You really need to study logic and basic science and engineering, Jerome, so you don't keep bothering people with pronouncements, suggestions, and questions that can only arise from deplorable logical skills and general ignorance -- assuming you are not simply a troll, deliberately irritating people. And your transparently false statement that you fully understand electrolysis, combined with clearly not having read and/or comprehended Mab's link, are quite insulting to everyone who has, patiently or not, tried to enlighten you.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/10/2007 00:22:27 |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 00:24:17 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Does the explosion; caused by the burning of the gas produced, result in more energy than the battery is expending?
|
No
|
Thanks for the informative information. Is there a reasoning behind your no.
|
Read the articles I posted. The answer in in there. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 00:39:50 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, yes, but a more transportable from of energy. Breaking the bond of water and using its parts.
|
Here's where the Problems with storage come into play. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 08:09:41 [Permalink]
|
I thought this would topic would lead to an interesting discussion. Obviously, I was incorrect.
I should have started at a less base level.
Mods, you can close this if you so choose, as it seems to have devolved instead of evolved as I had hoped. I will in the future assume a greater level of scientific knowledge of my fellow forum posters in the future.
 |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 12:43:57 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I will in the future assume a greater level of scientific knowledge of my fellow forum posters in the future. |
Now that you've indirectly confessed that you did have more advanced knowledge about chemistry and physics that you initially pretended to have, I feel greatly insulted by the follow-up posts you made in this thread. 
Or, since you've previously stated that you never graduated from High School, perhaps you didn't fake your initial ignorance, and is lying now as you imply that you know so much more. 
Considering the bulk of your postings so far, either way I agree with Dude and others who say that you're a troll.
|
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 12:55:11 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I will in the future assume a greater level of scientific knowledge of my fellow forum posters in the future. |
Now that you've indirectly confessed that you did have more advanced knowledge about chemistry and physics that you initially pretended to have, I feel greatly insulted by the follow-up posts you made in this thread.
Or, since you've previously stated that you never graduated from High School, perhaps you didn't fake your initial ignorance, and is lying now as you imply that you know so much more.
Considering the bulk of your postings so far, either way I agree with Dude and others who say that you're a troll.
|
I did not indirectly confesses anything of the sort as I never feigned lack of knowledge. I did not pretend anything. I did not lie. If it makes you feel better to assume these things there is little I can do about your need to presume this.
If facts upset your world view you should not blame the messenger.
|
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 13:22:18 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If facts upset your world view you should not blame the messenger.
|
Facts rarely upset (nor uproot) my world view. Except when I abandoned my religion and became an agnostic atheist. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 23:02:51 [Permalink]
|
Jerome said:
I thought this would topic would lead to an interesting discussion. Obviously, I was incorrect.
I should have started at a less base level.
Mods, you can close this if you so choose, as it seems to have devolved instead of evolved as I had hoped. I will in the future assume a greater level of scientific knowledge of my fellow forum posters in the future.
|
 |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 06:36:41 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I thought this would topic would lead to an interesting discussion. Obviously, I was incorrect.
I should have started at a less base level.
Mods, you can close this if you so choose, as it seems to have devolved instead of evolved as I had hoped. I will in the future assume a greater level of scientific knowledge of my fellow forum posters in the future.
|
Sorry you didn't quite get the discussion out of this that you wanted. Perhaps next time, you should re-consider your approach. In general, you modus operandi is to put forward some ridiculous claim and then, once people jump with various arguments as to why your ridiculous claim is wrong, you ask vague leading questions in a very condescending manner. This thread is no different. Unfortunately for you, unlike grand conspiracies, it's pretty easy to debunk ridiculous scientific claims.
So if your aim was to generate 15 pages on some grand conspiracy by nefarious energy companies to suppress knowledge of cheap-and-easy energy, you'll fail every time. It's too easy to debunk, and most of the regulars here at SFN know their science.
Alternatively, if you were genuinely interested in learning about the things brought up here, you should make that more clear. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 13:05:38 [Permalink]
|
Jerome, even a hundred years ago, anyone who had successfully absorbed a decent course of high school science would not have asked the questions you have, nor would they have demonstrated that they were ignorant of any inkling of the Law of Conservation of Energy. In physical science, such an understanding is as basic as genetics, or natural selection, are to biology.
Since you don't have this basic understanding, you should get it before proceeding further. It's your own loss that you've ignored the links that might enlighten you by bringing your understanding up to a minimal 19th Century standard.
Those of us who suppose you are troll (I'm still undecided, personally) are doing you a favor, as the only other explanation for your behavior is that you are a blithering ignoramus who prefers ignorance to knowledge.
I invite anyone who has ever toyed with the idea of "free energy" perpetual motion devices to read the following wry comment, which I've copied from the Wiki article on PMMs:The law that entropy always increases, holds, I think, the supreme position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation.
--Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington, The Nature of the Physical World (1927)
|
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2007 : 18:23:53 [Permalink]
|
I particularly enjoyed the closing statement:
| "I hope to inspire smart, safe minded people to experiment and create the next fuel source for America" |
Yeah, because smart, safe minded people would almost certainly turn to youtube for inspiration!
|
John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 06/11/2007 18:24:18 |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Low cost energy from water?
