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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 04/27/2007 : 11:29:03
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18351044/
They have decided to enforce their own laws!
Strangely, the shutdown was not predicted.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/27/2007 : 13:08:12 [Permalink]
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Well, there goes the economy.... Bummer.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 16:07:23 [Permalink]
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C'est la manière si va, parfois, eh? I'm not sure this is over with, yet.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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madisland
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 06:26:11 [Permalink]
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| Scary stuff. That police harassment is actually legal in PA. Next thing you know they will be shutting down this forum for hosting too many idiots mascarading as intellectuals. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 06:46:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by madisland...
Scary stuff. That police harassment is actually legal in PA. Next thing you know they will be shutting down this forum for hosting too many idiots mascarading as intellectuals. |
Welcome back, Barbara. Your insults got pretty old pretty fast last time you visited, so maybe you'd like to drop the persecuted psychic bit and try engaging in a productive conversation this time. Would you care to elaborate on your comment? Where exactly would you draw the legal line regarding defrauding people by claiming to have some kind of psychic abilities?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 07:27:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by madisland
Scary stuff. That police harassment is actually legal in PA. Next thing you know they will be shutting down this forum for hosting too many idiots mascarading as intellectuals.
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Excuse me, but how exactly is shutting down a fraud, indeed a parasitic growth within the community, harassment?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 07:38:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by madisland
Scary stuff. |
Only to the scam artists.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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madisland
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 15:18:58 [Permalink]
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Can you say POLICE STATE? That this forum thinks it holds the corner on truth and that truth should be executed through the police state is some of the scariest shit you all have put out yet. Fraud? There is a law in NYC that you can't kiss on the corner. Let's start arresting people for that because the Right Wing Radicals think that's just too much. They too would have tons of great arguments for persecution of what THEY don't believe in. That you don't believe in psychics doesn't make it so. And the thinly veiled excuse for intellectualism doesn't really fly too far when your retoric is peppered with phoney phacts and subjective perceptions.
If you don't believe in abortion don't have one. If you don't believe in psychics don't go to one. But don't try to tell me you are right and I am wrong. There's room for all of us, but this police state shit is just frightening. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 16:09:05 [Permalink]
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I echo Geemack's question, posed to madisland: Where exactly would you draw the legal line regarding defrauding people by claiming to have some kind of psychic abilities? You can't just put a sign on your house saying "Dr. Joe: podiatrist" without actually having some training and certification in that field of medicine. You can't sell sugar pills with the label "Weight Loss Remedy". You can't put lima beans in a package that says "Magic Beans: will create a stalk to a land of giants and golden-egg-laying-geese, so long as you are pure of heart" unless you also put a disclaimer that it is a novelty gag product. Most psychics claim that their abilities are real, without any evidence. How is that not fraud?
Hell, where would you draw the legal line regarding defrauding people period? Perhaps we should have no faulse advertising laws at all.
Edited for spelling errors. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 06/06/2007 16:11:02 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 16:12:19 [Permalink]
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Erm, do correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me thet there's a big difference between swapping spit on the street corner and the likes of Sylvia Browne ripping people off. There is some reason to bitch about harrassing the former, but the latter is nothing but a decietful scam and should be shut down.
Now, if you want to consult a psychic, fine, have at it. But before you do, ask yourself how many psychics have won any of the lottos. And how come James Randi still has a million dollars in his stash.
Where did you get the idea that this is a right-wing-idiot site? We are skeptics and as such insist on reliable evidence in support of any claims, that's all. The righties dislike us even more than you seem to because we call them to task on their often silly claims as well. And enjoy doing it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 17:46:33 [Permalink]
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Oh my gosh! Is this Barbara? The one who ran from our site to hers only to write a lying screed about us? The one we busted for doing that? The one who actually had to apologize to us? The one who talks about conflict resolution but comes to our site and dishes out insults? The one who is at peace with the world? That Barbara?
Hey Barbara, how's it going?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 18:04:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by madisland...
Can you say POLICE STATE? That this forum thinks it holds the corner on truth and that truth should be executed through the police state is some of the scariest shit you all have put out yet. |
During your previous visits to SFN you persisted in misrepresenting the position of the other participants here. Apparently you're bound and determined to attempt that dishonest tactic again. Nobody here claims to have cornered the truth, nor has anyone suggested that adherence to "the truth" be enforced by use of a police state.
Yes, fraud. It's fraud when you charge money for services which you can't/don't actually deliver. If you're taking money from people in exchange for your psychic services, and you can't demonstrate that you indeed have some kind of applicable psychic ability, you belong in jail.
| There is a law in NYC that you can't kiss on the corner. Let's start arresting people for that because the Right Wing Radicals think that's just too much. They too would have tons of great arguments for persecution of what THEY don't believe in. |
Irrelevant, and another dishonest attempt to distract from the issue at hand.
| That you don't believe in psychics doesn't make it so. |
In general the participants here aren't terribly concerned with believing or not believing things. We are concerned with whether or not there is legitimate evidence to support a particular claim. So far there seems to be a complete lack of evidence to support claims of psychic abilities. Oh, and of course that you pretend to have psychic abilities doesn't make it so.
| And the thinly veiled excuse for intellectualism doesn't really fly too far when your retoric is peppered with phoney phacts and subjective perceptions. |
Again you're being dishonest by misrepresenting the position of the participants in this forum. You PMSing or something, Barbara? You seem to have that same chip on your shoulder that you had last time you came here to whine and complain and generally badmouth the good folks at SFN.
How about a little honesty for a change? Why don't you show us how objective you can be? You've been offered the opportunity to prove that you actually have some kind of verifiable psychic ability, that you're something other than a scam artist. Define psychic. Give us a thorough description of just what you mean by psychic. Then provide valid, scientific evidence to show that you actually have some kind of psychic ability.
If you don't believe in abortion don't have one. If you don't believe in psychics don't go to one. But don't try to tell me you are right and I am wrong.
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Your comparison to abortions is another dishonest and completely ridiculous attempt to distract from the issue of fraud being perpetrated by those who claim to be psychics.
| There's room for all of us, but this police state shit is just frightening. |
Are you saying there's room for every kind of deception, any kind of fraud, a free for all, where any of us can charge money, without regulation, supposedly providing services based on whatever hocus pocus we wish to claim? Of course you can't be serious.
Now what do you say we try getting back to the actual topic of this thread? I'll ask again, exactly where would you draw the legal line to separate fraud from what you apparently believe to be legitimate psychic services?
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 18:45:12 [Permalink]
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I somehow get the feeling I'm the only skeptic here who is against such a law. Taking advantage of someone to get their money is evil, awful, and in all ways shapes and forms wrong, and we should put an end to it to the best of our ability. But not all psychics are like that. Certainly, there are some, perhaps no more or less than there are deceitful car repair men. If we find a psychic who we can show is taking advantage of someone for their money, then yes, we should prosecute them to the full extent of the law. But again, there are psychics out there who truly believe in their ability and truly believe that they are helping people. And these psychics don't charge $700 a hour, but instead, a modest price for their service.
My ideal society is where psychics go out of business without needing the hand of the law to interfere. But just because we our society falls short of that doesn't mean that action by the government should be taken. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
| Edited by - Ricky on 06/06/2007 18:48:37 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 22:12:58 [Permalink]
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Ricky, even honest repairmen can be charged with fraud for unwittingly using fraudlent parts. The smart ones rat on their suppliers in return for leniency.
Psychics don't have such a luxury. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2007 : 22:26:39 [Permalink]
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My question is why could not the fortune tellers see this coming and get out of town.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Philly shuts down psychics who profit!
