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 Newton religious writings displayed in Jerusalem
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2007 :  16:59:03  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
CNN has this kid-gloves take in an AP article on Isaac Newton's religious and mystical writings.

Rather than even mention the fact that the great scientist's quest for understanding the universe was brought to a sudden and permanent halt by his religious fervor, there are quotes such as:
The Newton papers, Ben-Menahem said, also complicate the idea that science is diametrically opposed to religion. "These documents show a scientist guided by religious fervor, by a desire to see God's actions in the world," she said.
To me, the article (perhaps unintentionally) reveals that Newton simply fell off his rocker into religion-driven mysticism:
In one manuscript from the early 1700s, Newton used the cryptic Book of Daniel to calculate the date for the apocalypse, reaching the conclusion that the world would end no earlier than 2060.
And:
The exhibit also includes treatises on daily practice in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. In one document, Newton discussed the exact dimensions of the temple -- its plans mirrored the arrangement of the cosmos, he believed -- and sketched it. Another paper contains words in Hebrew, including a sentence taken from the Jewish prayerbook.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2007 :  19:09:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe "the great scientist's quest for understanding the universe was brought" to an understanding of a creator?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2007 :  19:25:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Maybe "the great scientist's quest for understanding the universe was brought" to an understanding of a creator?


Yeah. Maybe he wanted to understand the creator of the JFK/911/Federal Reserve/Public Education/Area-51/Bigfoot/Loch Ness conspiracy!!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2007 :  19:31:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rather than even mention the fact that the great scientist's quest for understanding the universe was brought to a sudden and permanent halt by his religious fervor


I've never seen any type of biography stating this. On the contrary, it's always been that he intertwined his religious beliefs with the physics/mathematics that he developed. Do you have any kind of information on how it was brought to a halt?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2007 :  22:51:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If Newton was alive today, he'd probably be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  04:45:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Maybe "the great scientist's quest for understanding the universe was brought" to an understanding of a creator?

With all creators being unevidenced, I believe that once you arrive at this unassailable conclusion, "The Creator did it", for many the quest for knowledge is over. How much more might Newton have revealed about reality had he not been so confined in his thinking.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  04:56:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All his religious writings were to throw them off the trail so as the Grand Master of the Priory de Sion, he could protect the bloodline of Christ.

Rex Mundi

Joe
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  06:36:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Rather than even mention the fact that the great scientist's quest for understanding the universe was brought to a sudden and permanent halt by his religious fervor


I've never seen any type of biography stating this. On the contrary, it's always been that he intertwined his religious beliefs with the physics/mathematics that he developed. Do you have any kind of information on how it was brought to a halt?
Sorry, Ricky, I read (online?) about a time when Newton simply abandoned the scientific pursuit of some major point of celestial mechanics with a "God-did-it," but I cannot recall the details at this moment. I am looking for the details now. Maybe someone else can recall the specifics?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/19/2007 06:42:19
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  06:39:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Original_Intent

All his religious writings were to throw them off the trail so as the Grand Master of the Priory de Sion, he could protect the bloodline of Christ.

Rex Mundi

Joe
There you go. And those who accused him of being a Rosicrucian were just saying that as a red herring to throw people off, so they would not discover that he was the Grand Master of Sion.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/19/2007 06:41:19
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  07:08:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Maybe "the great scientist's quest for understanding the universe was brought" to an understanding of a creator?

Hardly. Because the very instant he assumed a creator he abandoned the scientific method. The Scientific Method is incompatible with the Supernatural.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  08:53:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh hell, what's the big deal? Almost everyone back then believed in God. Most still do including somewhere around 40% of active scientists. I would like anyone to show me how Kenneth Miller does not rely on the scientific method, when doing science, simply because he believes in God.

Just take what Newton gave us and leave the rest behind. His meanderings about God in no way diminishes his contribution to science.

It doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  08:57:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Scientific Method wasnt really an option for one such as Newton, they didnt really have the modern understanding of it, nor did they have a support structure of other SM like-minded individuals. Not to mention the fact that he could have been outcast or worse if he took a non-God approach.

I'm not saying he was prevented from being a 'pure' scientist, I believe he was sincere in his thoelogical beliefs. It must have been a bitch to try to manage both perspectives. Hell even Einstein thought along those lines...

I for one cant get into his end-world predictions until 5/5/12 passes, one false apocolypse at a time please.

Edited: To make myself seem less stupid.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 06/19/2007 08:59:00
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  10:07:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Original_Intent

All his religious writings were to throw them off the trail so as the Grand Master of the Priory de Sion, he could protect the bloodline of Christ.

Rex Mundi

Joe


I'm quite confused by this. Are you stating that all his religious writings were simply to create some sort of facade to protect the bloodline of Christ? And was this in response to my question on how religion brought Newton's scientific investigations to a halt? HalfMooner seems to think so, but I'm not quite seeing how this has anything at all to do with science.


Hardly. Because the very instant he assumed a creator he abandoned the scientific method. The Scientific Method is incompatible with the Supernatural.


The scientific method certainly can't be applied to the supernatural. This does not mean that they are incompatible. There have been many scientists who are devout in one religion or another. How they do so has a variety of ways. One is certainly compartmentalization. Another, which is typically found in the 'Creationist-turned-biologist' is that they are studying God's creation to learn more about God. I believe that Newton was along this line, but I must say I am getting my information from a mathematics professor and not directly. I've always intended to read Newton's Principia, but I fear I won't get to it for a very long time.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 06/19/2007 10:08:51
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend

USA
346 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  10:21:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send leoofno a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Originally posted by Original_Intent

All his religious writings were to throw them off the trail so as the Grand Master of the Priory de Sion, he could protect the bloodline of Christ.

Rex Mundi

Joe


I'm quite confused by this. Are you stating that all his religious writings were simply to create some sort of facade to protect the bloodline of Christ? And was this in response to my question on how religion brought Newton's scientific investigations to a halt? HalfMooner seems to think so, but I'm not quite seeing how this has anything at all to do with science.

I'm pretty sure he was joking.

I laughed, for what its worth.(But then, my wife says I have a warped sense of humor.)

"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  10:25:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ricky said:
I'm quite confused by this. Are you stating that all his religious writings were simply to create some sort of facade to protect the bloodline of Christ?


Ricky, I'm pretty sure that was, ummm... sarcasm.

Ever read (or see) The Davinci Code?


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2007 :  10:35:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahhh... No, I have never even read any sort of summary of The Davinci Code.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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