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 Sorry Travolta, Cho not on drugs...
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  07:28:48  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19361736/

You may have heard the John Travolta blamed precription drugs for the Virginia Tech shootings/all school shootings the other day. A typical Scientologist line, which of course is completely false. The toxicology shows no drugs, precription or otherwise in Cho's system.

Funny how they never seem to blame Thetan infestation for these problems to the media. Bait and switch at its worst.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  07:32:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apparently, Scientology and Christianity have more in common than not.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  09:05:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apparently, Scientology and Christianity have more in common than not.


Both religions do seem to have more than their fair share of blithering imbeciles.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  09:34:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19361736/

You may have heard the John Travolta blamed precription drugs for the Virginia Tech shootings/all school shootings the other day. A typical Scientologist line, which of course is completely false. The toxicology shows no drugs, precription or otherwise in Cho's system.

Funny how they never seem to blame Thetan infestation for these problems to the media. Bait and switch at its worst.


You should do some research and see psychotropic drugs almost always are present in school shootings.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  09:36:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tell ya what why dont you amaze us all and do some forking research on one of your many comments yourself.

My statement was refering to Cho and Virginia Tech.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  10:24:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This has been annoying me,

Even if individuals who lose it are on PX, there is no way of determining if their actions are a direct result of the mind altering, as most of them die in the incidents. Most of the individuals went on the drugs in the first place because of depression, suicidal thoughts or other abnormal behavior, so to conclude that the drugs are to blame is ignorant at best. How can one determine if the shooters would not have lost it even sooner without the drugs?

How many of the shooters lost it when they stopped taking the drugs as most eventually do out of mistrust or frustration?

No doubt some people have lost it because of bad reactions to psychotropic drugs, but to say that most shootings are caused by them is ridiculous. Whos to say that there wouldnt be far more incidents without the drugs?

I would like to add that many parents blame the drugs out of the erroneous belief that they really knew their child deep down and they would never be at fault for something so terrible. Just look at the baseball player who died recently when he was very drunk, high on coke, talking on his cell and speeding when he lost control and hit a tow truck on the side of the road. The father of the player sued the tow-truck driver, the person being towed, the bar and bartender, while showing no hint that he felt his son was in anyway responsible for his own death.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  14:27:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Scientology is at at the cutting edge of organized religion. It seems to be the first to almost explicitly recognize the importance of psychosis in its followers. Its opposition to antipsychotic drugs is a logical defensive position. Other religions need to take heed of Scientology's foresight, or the day may come when some pill will banish all spirits and demons.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  19:17:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Other religions need to take heed of Scientology's foresight, or the day may come when some pill will banish all spirits and demons.
Obviously, the solution will be a custom virus whose instructions tailor a person's DNA to remove the "God Gene."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  22:39:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In a relatively more serious musing: It may be that the same kind of imaginative capacity in people that may be harnessed for theist credulity is also has useful applications for creativity and thinking in analogical ways. So such pills or virii as we imagine might do as much harm for humanity as good.

(Granted, they'd have to do a lot of harm to creativity, to outweigh the good done by banishing theism!)


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  23:41:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eh, Travolta's a Scientologist; how smart can he be?

Jerome, back up the road, you made a claim:
You should do some research and see psychotropic drugs almost always are present in school shootings.

I'm calling you on it; gimmie some reference and exapmles other than Cho, who, as was reported, was not junked out on anything, but probably should have been. Might have saved thirty & some-odd lives including his own.






"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 06/22/2007 23:53:19
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  00:22:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, I just got back from checking it all out. A google on 'school shootings psycotropic drugs' was rewarded with endless Travolta blather and hysteria, none of it with much credence. 'Psychotropic drugs school violence' finally yielded, after slogging through yet more nonsense, a scientific thesis on the topic. It's quite long and I haven't read it through, but thus far, it's better than the popular crap.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  05:25:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.teenscreentruth.com/ReasonBehindTheMadness.html

"Last month, I warned you about the dangers of these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and detailed a few of the scores of murders, suicides, and other acts of violence committed by people taking Prozac-like drugs. THESE DRUGS CAN CAUSE AKATHISIA, MENTAL AND PHYSICAL AGITATION THAT SPARKS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE, VIOLENT BEHAVIOR. They can also induce dissociative reactions, making those who take the drugs INSENSITIVE TO THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR BEHAVIOR."

Dr. Julian Whitaker, M.D.
http://www.drwhitaker.com

Just a start. You could e-mail the doctor.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  06:17:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even if these antipsychotic drugs caused murders and suicides every time they were taken (which I do not believe for a moment), Jerome, Cho still hadn't taken any!

Broad statements like Doctor Travolta's are lying, Scientology nonsense. They are not backed by evidence that the actual murderers had taken these drugs, and that having taken them (rather than having too low a dosage, or the drugs simply not being effective on those persons) caused the killings.

Scientology has a ideological bug up its ass about antipsychotic drugs. If they had their way, we'd have to reopen thousands of Bedlams to house the resulting masses of insane people. But Scientology would get more recruits. Don't trust these people!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  07:28:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

You should do some research and see psychotropic drugs almost always are present in school shootings.
Well, with such a broad claim, how could it not be true? After all, a psychotropic drug is simply one that affects brain function. I would agree that in any randomly-selected school shooter, you're likely to find caffeine, alcohol, nicotine and/or THC, all of which are psychotropic drugs.

Whitaker's screed on SSRIs mentions precisely two school shootings, Thurston and Columbine (and only mentions one of the shooters at Columbine), but Jerome would have us generalize from a sample size of two to "almost always are present." Dr. Whitaker certainly doesn't make such a case, offering no data or references, a bunch of argument by all-caps, and a smear the pharmaceutical industry so that he can sell more of his supplements and "natural antidepressants."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  07:28:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

http://www.teenscreentruth.com/ReasonBehindTheMadness.html

"Last month, I warned you about the dangers of these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and detailed a few of the scores of murders, suicides, and other acts of violence committed by people taking Prozac-like drugs. THESE DRUGS CAN CAUSE AKATHISIA, MENTAL AND PHYSICAL AGITATION THAT SPARKS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE, VIOLENT BEHAVIOR. They can also induce dissociative reactions, making those who take the drugs INSENSITIVE TO THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR BEHAVIOR."

Dr. Julian Whitaker, M.D.
http://www.drwhitaker.com

Just a start. You could e-mail the doctor.


Well well. Thanks for the link Jerome. No need to email the doctor. His site speaks for itself.

What I found out is Dr. Whitaker would really like you to buy his products rather than pharmaceuticals.

The Whitaker Wellness Institute

The Whitaker Wellness Institute was created in 1979, and since that time, we've treated more than 35,000 patients. Some of them come for help in overcoming serious health challenges such as heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, or Parkinson's disease. Others hope to avoid a recommended surgery or reduce their reliance on prescription drugs. Still others simply want to adopt a healthier lifestyle within our structured, supportive environment.


some interesting claims

The bottom line

All my alarm bells went off looking over his site. I was sorely disappointed that he didn't list the ingredients in his diet supplements. But hey. Anyhow, lots of alternative medicine stuff but more to the point, this guy is selling product. He is not just recommending some alternative meds, he is selling them. And the list of what he is selling is long. He is not a credible source for information on pharmaceuticals at all. And his statement about SSRI's and teens is loathsome and not true. It's a gross over simplification of a complicated subject.

He is a quack.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  08:20:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Based on the "profit motive" you can discount any drug claim as the prescription drug industry makes profit, lobbies the government for approval with money (i.e. profit), and doctors are "lobbied" by the drug industry.

Why were there not school shootings at the current rate prior to the introduction on a mass scale of prescribed drugs for children?

http://tinyurl.com/3c85xe

According to this article the FDA is just finding out about the dangers of these types of drugs on the minds of children.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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