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 Former Bush surgeon general says he was muzzled
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  12:04:33  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Source

"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried," Dr. Richard Carmona, who served as the nation's top doctor from 2002 until 2006, told a House of Representatives committee.

"The problem with this approach is that in public health, as in a democracy, there is nothing worse than ignoring science, or marginalizing the voice of science for reasons driven by changing political winds. The job of surgeon general is to be the doctor of the nation, not the doctor of a political party," Carmona added.


Anyone surprised?


by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  13:27:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nope.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  18:46:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nothing new in the world of politics.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  19:29:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many of his own words.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  19:38:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the New York Times report is disgusting:
Dr. Carmona, who served as surgeon general from 2002 to 2006, said White House officials would not allow him to speak or issue reports about stem cells, emergency contraception, sex education, or prison, mental and global health issues because of political concerns. Top administration officials delayed for years and attempted to 'water down' a landmark report on secondhand tobacco smoke, he said in sworn testimony before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

He was ordered to mention President Bush three times on every page of every speech he gave, Dr. Carmona said. He was asked to make speeches to support Republican political candidates and to attend political briefings, at least one of which included Karl Rove, the president's senior political adviser, he said.
Christ.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  19:55:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At least this guy has a head on his shoulders and is speaking out.

I will always remember: "We can make safer weapons. We can make safer bullets."



And who could forget: "Sex with a child does not a pedophile make - it doesn't make the child a pedophile!"



I love politics!


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  20:27:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Carmona is a coward. He just shut up and did what they told him to do while he was an active duty military officer, instead of speaking out against the policies that censored him. He was under no legal obligation to remain silent, he just wanted to protect his pension and the chance of getting a cushy consulting job when he retired.

Even though he is speaking now, I don't forgive him for remaining silent previously.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  20:46:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Carmona is a coward. He just shut up and did what they told him to do while he was an active duty military officer, instead of speaking out against the policies that censored him. He was under no legal obligation to remain silent, he just wanted to protect his pension and the chance of getting a cushy consulting job when he retired.

Even though he is speaking now, I don't forgive him for remaining silent previously.




I agree, and also all those military generals who didn't say anything about the Iraq occupation until after they retired....

If these people had courage while they were relevant, what a different world we may be living in...

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 07/10/2007 20:46:49
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  21:15:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pleco said:
If these people had courage while they were relevant, what a different world we may be living in...


What are you going to say when Hillary invades Iran?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  21:16:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Carmona is a coward. He just shut up and did what they told him to do while he was an active duty military officer, instead of speaking out against the policies that censored him. He was under no legal obligation to remain silent, he just wanted to protect his pension and the chance of getting a cushy consulting job when he retired.

Even though he is speaking now, I don't forgive him for remaining silent previously.


Exactly. Colin Powell's another such coward. A man with high ideals who didn't stand up for them when it mattered most to his country.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  21:18:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Halfmooner said
Colin Powell's another such coward.


He was an accessory before the fact with his testimony to the U.N.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  22:14:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

Originally posted by Dude

Carmona is a coward. He just shut up and did what they told him to do while he was an active duty military officer, instead of speaking out against the policies that censored him. He was under no legal obligation to remain silent, he just wanted to protect his pension and the chance of getting a cushy consulting job when he retired.

Even though he is speaking now, I don't forgive him for remaining silent previously.




I agree, and also all those military generals who didn't say anything about the Iraq occupation until after they retired....

If these people had courage while they were relevant, what a different world we may be living in...
You do realize that the president is the commander and chief of all branches of the military in America. He is their boss until they retire. I'm not so sure they could say anything publicly in opposition to the president. At least, not without breaking some ethical code, if not a legal code of conduct.

I'm not defending Carmona, by the way. He should have resigned his post when he saw what his job really was…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2007 :  00:05:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

You do realize that the president is the commander and chief of all branches of the military in America. He is their boss until they retire. I'm not so sure they could say anything publicly in opposition to the president. At least, not without breaking some ethical code, if not a legal code of conduct.
With tens or hundreds of thousands of lives in the balance, I'd like to think that a decision to go with truth and justice would be a no-brainer, when weighed against such niceties as tradition, personal loyalty, or even the law.

Then there is my reductio ad Hitlerum: "I was only following orders" ("Befehl ist Befehl") was the Nuremeberg defense.

Of course, with Colin Powell's lies, we surely aren't talking about war crimes. Or are we?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/11/2007 00:09:22
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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2007 :  02:07:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Similar comments over at the Bad Astronomy Blog.

This blog is excellent and has commented before about White House interference with scientific research.



Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2007 :  02:29:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Chippewa

Similar comments over at the Bad Astronomy Blog.

This blog is excellent and has commented before about White House interference with scientific research.



He's right on the mark.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2007 :  04:23:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil
You do realize that the president is the commander and chief of all branches of the military in America. He is their boss until they retire. I'm not so sure they could say anything publicly in opposition to the president. At least, not without breaking some ethical code, if not a legal code of conduct.

I'm not defending Carmona, by the way. He should have resigned his post when he saw what his job really was…
Actually, according to Article II, he's just the "commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States."

And really, once you're required to mention the President three times a page in every speech, I think you need to seriously question what you're doing. That's something a dictatorial regime does, not the United States.
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