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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  21:13:38  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The US federal Government established as policy to educate from elementary school in 1975 that a two child household was the best, so as to help control population.

"Only nominal attention is [currently] given to population education or sex education in schools..." [Page 158] "Recommendation: That US agencies stress the importance of education of the next generation of parents, starting in elementary schools, toward a two-child family ideal. That AID stimulate specific efforts to develop means of educating children of elementary school age to the ideal of the two-child family..."

http://www.population-security.org/11-CH3.html#summary


This is called forced propaganda.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  22:04:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jerome:
This is called forced propaganda.

You're right! They should have just made it a law….

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  22:16:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If this were the case, why haven't teachers been let in on the secret?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26006 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2007 :  22:36:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In 1977 I took my first "sex ed" class in a public elementary school.

Apparently, the propaganda didn't work, as I am in favor of negative population growth, and so only have the one child.

My wife, who went through elementary school four years behind me, obviously failed to succumb to the propaganda as well, because when I met her, she wanted to have seven daughters.

Seriously now, what's the point of this thread?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  02:05:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, I looked at the cited report, and here's the deal: Jerome is quote-mining, cherry-picking, and twisting the truth to the point of lies, once again. No surprise there.

The report cited is not a law, not a Federal code, not a regulation, not an executive order, not even a Federal policy. It is a series of old 1974 Nixon-era suggestions for further consideration, intended for helping control world population growth. It wasn't even meant to be applied domestically, and may never have had much impact on actual foreign policy. Unfortunately.

But Jerome, in his paranoid mendacity, presented this report as though it were some kind of present-day, secret Federal plan to propagandize in American schools. That's a new nadir even for Jerome.

Let's see
If he ever
Admits that his
Research is flawed.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/23/2007 02:08:53
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  02:54:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He is a troll, plain and simple.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  08:58:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Okay, I looked at the cited report, and here's the deal: Jerome is quote-mining, cherry-picking, and twisting the truth to the point of lies, once again. No surprise there.

The report cited is not a law, not a Federal code, not a regulation, not an executive order, not even a Federal policy. It is a series of old 1974 Nixon-era suggestions for further consideration, intended for helping control world population growth. It wasn't even meant to be applied domestically, and may never have had much impact on actual foreign policy. Unfortunately.

But Jerome, in his paranoid mendacity, presented this report as though it were some kind of present-day, secret Federal plan to propagandize in American schools. That's a new nadir even for Jerome.

Let's see
If he ever
Admits that his
Research is flawed.






Wrong :"It was adopted as official U.S. policy by President Gerald Ford in November of 1975. It was originally classified, but was later declassified and obtained by researchers in the early 1990s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSSM_200

What generation of students starting in elementary school that US agencies educating do you think are being referred to?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  09:37:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know what? I haven't the energy to bother with this crap. Follow the link and tear him a new one.

By the way, Jerome, I think that zero population growth is a worthy pursuit.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  10:10:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know what? I haven't the energy to bother with this crap. Follow the link and tear him a new one.

What's the point he just a troll and an ignorant one to boot.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  12:28:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Besides Wikipedia and a bunch of conspiracy sites, is there any official reference to this old document being an active part of US foreign policy?

ETA: 'cause when Lyndon LaRouche starts referring to it, it's almost CERTAINLY whacko.
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 06/23/2007 12:34:03
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  12:34:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by HalfMooner

Okay, I looked at the cited report, and here's the deal: Jerome is quote-mining, cherry-picking, and twisting the truth to the point of lies, once again. No surprise there.

The report cited is not a law, not a Federal code, not a regulation, not an executive order, not even a Federal policy. It is a series of old 1974 Nixon-era suggestions for further consideration, intended for helping control world population growth. It wasn't even meant to be applied domestically, and may never have had much impact on actual foreign policy. Unfortunately.

But Jerome, in his paranoid mendacity, presented this report as though it were some kind of present-day, secret Federal plan to propagandize in American schools. That's a new nadir even for Jerome.

Let's see
If he ever
Admits that his
Research is flawed.






Wrong :"It was adopted as official U.S. policy by President Gerald Ford in November of 1975. It was originally classified, but was later declassified and obtained by researchers in the early 1990s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSSM_200

What generation of students starting in elementary school that US agencies educating do you think are being referred to?


Okay, upon seeing evidence, I concede that the memo did become official foreign policy of the Ford Administration. I stand corrected. Thank you for the link. Do you have any evidence of actual programs that sprang from this policy? (If there were any, they must not have worked too well, unfortunately.)

Now, will you now concede the utter falsehood of your main alarmist point? Will you admit that the very subject of the OP, "American Education used by National Gov," was dishonest or wildly incorrect, and that the policy paper in question was former US foreign policy and that the US Federal government never has and is not now forcing US public schools to teach kids that only two kids in a family is ideal?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/23/2007 13:12:57
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  13:24:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Halfmooner said "Will you admit that the very subject of the OP, "American Education used by National Gov," was dishonest or wildly incorrect, and that the policy paper in question was former US foreign policy and that the US Federal government never has and is not now forcing US public schools to teach kids that only two kids in a family is ideal?"


Do you have any evidence that this policy is no longer being implemented?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  13:29:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

You know what? I haven't the energy to bother with this crap. Follow the link and tear him a new one.

By the way, Jerome, I think that zero population growth is a worthy pursuit.


Many policy makers agree with your stand on population growth.

I was only showing a single instance of government using public schools to propagandize.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  14:37:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Do you have any evidence that this policy is no longer being implemented?


You have yet to show any instance of this policy ever actually being used.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  14:59:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky


Do you have any evidence that this policy is no longer being implemented?


You have yet to show any instance of this policy ever actually being used.



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4847a1.htm

"Since 1972, the average family size has leveled off at approximately two children"

A stated goal, a goal achieved.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2007 :  15:09:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by Ricky


Do you have any evidence that this policy is no longer being implemented?


You have yet to show any instance of this policy ever actually being used.



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4847a1.htm

"Since 1972, the average family size has leveled off at approximately two children"

A stated goal, a goal achieved.




This happens in every country once they become developed. We see it in countries like UK, France, and Canada. Germany, Japan, and Italy in fact have less than 2.1 kids per family, which is the replacement level.

There are various theories for why this happens. Most has to do with the availability of birth control and the education level of women. The cost of raising a child, the lower child mortality rate, and the fact that there is no need for children to help share work in developed countries also contribute. That it happened in the US, the richest country overall and one of the richest per capita, should be of no surprise.

Again, I ask for an instance where this policy was used.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 06/23/2007 15:11:59
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