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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2007 : 05:12:43 [Permalink]
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Parthenogenesis is a fascinating topic, and there are a goodish number of species that use it as their sole means of reproduction. There is even a sort of, call it: emergency parthenogenesis. Zoo specimens of Burmese python and Konodo monitor, to the astonishment of all concerned, have given "virgin birth," as it were -- could this mean that Mary was a lizard and God had nothing to do with it? | Parthenogenesis (from the Greek #960;#945;#961;#952;#941;#957;#959;#962; parthenos, "virgin", + #947;#941;#957;#949;#963;#953;#962; genesis, "creation") describes the growth and development of an embryo or seed without fertilization by a male. Parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some species, including lower plants, invertebrates (e.g. water fleas, aphids, some bees and parasitic wasps), and vertebrates (e.g. some reptiles,[1] fish, and, very rarely, birds[2] and sharks[3]). It is sometimes also used to describe reproduction modes in hermaphroditic species which can self-fertilize. |
The asexual whiptail species Cnemidophorus neomexicanus (center) with the sexual species that hybridized to form it, C. inornatus (left) and C. tigris (right).
As for hermafrodites, slugs and snails are a good examples, as are the various (related) nudibranchs.
Spanish Shawl Nudibranch. Go here for a larger picture -- talk about eye-candy!
This little mite is mainly remarkable in that it retained the ability to reproduce sexually when it was not needed. While this is an exception of sorts to evolution's "use it or lose it" rule, the real question it raises is as to how many other species have also retained it over the eons.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 06/27/2007 : 07:56:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Jerome said:
Ricky, the article states that the "sex gametes is lost", while also giving examples of males being born.
Both can not be true. |
You would really not harm yourself if you bothered to look up the definition of terms before you make yourself look like a complete idiot, Jerome.
gamete:
| a mature germ cell (as a sperm or egg) possessing a haploid chromosome set and capable of initiating formation of a new individual by fusion with another gamete |
And to correct your misquote of the article:
So when something as complex as the ability to produce sex gametes is lost, it's likely never to be developed again. Oddly, the Camisiidae mites seem to have retained that ability, despite surviving millions of years without using it.
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A gamete is produced by meiosis. You apparently do not know the difference between a gamete and a sex chromosome.
Surely you are aware that in some species there is no male sex chromosome? (in grasshoppers, for example, XX is female, XO is male. O indicating no chromosome)
The absence of gamete production does not mean the same thing as the absence of sex chromosomes. So much for your contradiction.
This is an interesting case of atavism, nothing more.
(edit: spelling)
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Dude, thanks for explaining this. I expect to see Jerome offering an apology any moment now. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 12:27:29 [Permalink]
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Cune said:
| I expect to see Jerome offering an apology any moment now. |
I doubt trollboy will apologize for trolling.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 12:32:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Cune said:
| I expect to see Jerome offering an apology any moment now. |
I doubt trollboy will apologize for trolling. |
Tis true. But when he thinks that he is right on some point, he always expects an apology or retraction. I was simply hoping that he'd give us the same courtesy. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 16:56:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I was simply hoping that he'd give us the same courtesy. |
Foolish mortal. Note Jerome's three-day silence in this thread, and that was just an obvious statement of "common knowledge," so he shouldn't have felt a need to defend it at all, but he did so anyway, for three pages.
In this thread, on the other hand, he figured out for himself that there was a contradiction based upon a half-read sentence and a half-understood word. If anything, he'll put up much more of a fight here because he's got nobody to blame but himself. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 22:52:24 [Permalink]
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A silly irrelevant contridiction you defend with your last breath.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 23:06:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
A silly irrelevant contridiction... |
Thank you for admitting that your contribution to this thread is based upon an irrelevancy. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 18:47:12 [Permalink]
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Well, Jerome accused me of a straw-man (in wednesday chat) about this thread.
But there is just no contradiction unless you are completely ignorant of the difference between a sex chromosome and a gamete.
So just apologize for trolling, troll.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 19:09:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Well, Jerome accused me of a straw-man (in wednesday chat) about this thread.
But there is just no contradiction unless you are completely ignorant of the difference between a sex chromosome and a gamete.
So just apologize for trolling, troll.
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No I did not(about this thread).
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 19:16:33 [Permalink]
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I asked you if you understood the difference between a gamete and a sex chromosome, and your reply was that I was arguing against a straw-man.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2007 : 19:27:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I asked you if you understood the difference between a gamete and a sex chromosome, and your reply was that I was arguing against a straw-man.
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I stated that you were missing the point.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2007 : 01:29:38 [Permalink]
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What point would that be?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2007 : 05:13:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
What point would that be? |
We can be sure that there is no point, or else Jerome would have replied to your original post. Right now, he's engaging in his well-known stall-and-dodge tactic. When pinned down, he'll move the goalposts. Once that fails, he will use some misdirection. Then it's stall-and-dodge, and on we go for 15 pages. |
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Designer Tinkers with Mites
