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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2007 : 09:24:00 [Permalink]
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Halfmooner, I agree with Filthys assessment of poker. But is not the "game" designed in the first place, rules established by an intelligence? Is not intelligence manipulating that game as it is played?
I think the point you are making is once the rules are established it is a random process in the context of the rules.
The next question would be how are the rules established, random or purpose?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 09:30:42 [Permalink]
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I am pretty sure that all science has shown to this point that non living matter can not become living matter.
Is there any peer reviewed science that shows life coming from non life?
My only point is this is in dispute. As such both arguments can be made, therefore one who believes in God is no less sane or intelligent than one who believes life came from non life.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 16:23:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I am pretty sure that all science has shown to this point that non living matter can not become living matter. |
Wrong
| My only point is this is in dispute. |
Wrong again
| As such both arguments can be made, therefore one who believes in God is no less sane or intelligent than one who believes life came from non life. |
There's a world of difference between the nature of the instances where you use "belief".
The first is the belief in the same manner that a small child believes in Santa Claus.
The second belief is in the same manner as "I believe y=kx+m".
I could elaborate, but you don't seem interested in my exaplanations.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 18:30:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.
Is not nationalism -- that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder -- one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?
These ways of thinking -- cultivated, nurtured, indoctrinated from childhood on -- have been useful to those in power, and deadly for those out of power.
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Is it too much to ask to have one day a year to think about whats good about this country? or at least to remember the ideals we strive for even if we fall short? We can all trash it the next 364 days; is that enough for you? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 19:55:28 [Permalink]
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Robb said:
| Is it too much to ask to have one day a year to think about whats good about this country? |
The two things are not mutually exclusive Robb.
We need to constantly self evaluate, and we are all well aware of the good things about the US. We need to work hard to correct the problems that have arisen recently, wars of aggression based on false premises, an out of control exec whos VP has declared himself a 4th branch of government (and he hasn't been forcibly removed from office yet), massive dependence on foriegn oil and fossil fuels in general that compromise our national security and our environment, 45million US citizens who can't see a doctor unless they have cash on hand, unenforcable borders, our alienation of centuries old allies because our president and republican controlled congress are assholes, the insane fundamentalist religions that have become to large over the last 30 years.... I could go on.
So while we take some time to recognize the good, we also can (and need to) recognize the bad and talk about what we can do to fix it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 03:07:20 [Permalink]
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Is it too much to ask to have one day a year to think about whats good about this country? or at least to remember the ideals we strive for even if we fall short? We can all trash it the next 364 days; is that enough for you?
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If you wish to celebrate these crimes, that's up to you. Yes, the people of the U.S. have fought, mostly against those in power, for many of the things that are wonderful about the U.S., but the obvious criminals in charge now are not an aberration of the system. That is the system. I have no problems with the country in general, although the system has kept many of the people ignorant. Statistics show that large percentages of them believe in things like Satan, Hell, the earth being 6,000 years old, Saddam being part of the 9/11 conspiracy, etc. It's certain segments of the government that are a problem.
It's time to start thinking of a better way, and yes, we can carry with that the ideals that we were taught this government stands for, but resists at every turn. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2007 : 04:00:49 [Permalink]
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It has long been said that patriotism is the final refuge of a scoundrel. That saying is so old that it has become quaint. As all things evolve, patriotism has now become the first refuge of so many scoundrels that one wonders how they all manage to fit in there.
When in doubt, they wave that soiled, tattered and abused rag, and shout out about God & Country & how Patriotic they are, and accuse all others of being less than worthy even of natural citizenship, and probably treasonous in the bargain.
But it's not really about the flag, is it? That is merely a symbol, one among many, and like all symbols, meaningless beyond it's context. What it's about is that period of American history when our revolution (Thank you, France. We couldn't have done it alone) was successful and the bit & reins of a tyrannical England were bloodily cast aside. That, not the high-sounding speeches of blow-hards who never served, or those wavers of a scoundrels disguise who flaunt themselves and their blinded point of view, or even the amazing pyrotechnics, is the meaning of Independence Day.
"We must all hang together or we shall all surely hang separately." -- Benjamin Franklin
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 04:21:08 [Permalink]
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Personally, I celebrated the fourth as I have done for 5 years. I laid in bed, reading a book, while listening to the fireworks in downtown Charlotte.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dude
There is no "debatable evidence" for the existance of any diety Jerome.
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Do you have scientific confirmation that life happened by accident?
If it is in dispute that life could happen by accident, it is debatable that life happened by purpose.
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Sounds like Jerome's god is responsible for the gaps in our knowledge. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 04:43:04 [Permalink]
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Well said.
Originally posted by filthy
It has long been said that patriotism is the final refuge of a scoundrel. That saying is so old that it has become quaint. As all things evolve, patriotism has now become the first refuge of so many scoundrels that one wonders how they all manage to fit in there.
When in doubt, they wave that soiled, tattered and abused rag, and shout out about God & Country & how Patriotic they are, and accuse all others of being less than worthy even of natural citizenship, and probably treasonous in the bargain.
But it's not really about the flag, is it? That is merely a symbol, one among many, and like all symbols, meaningless beyond it's context. What it's about is that period of American history when our revolution (Thank you, France. We couldn't have done it alone) was successful and the bit & reins of a tyrannical England were bloodily cast aside. That, not the high-sounding speeches of blow-hards who never served, or those wavers of a scoundrels disguise who flaunt themselves and their blinded point of view, or even the amazing pyrotechnics, is the meaning of Independence Day.
"We must all hang together or we shall all surely hang separately." -- Benjamin Franklin
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By example the current administration was quite successful in cowing dissent by questioning the patriotism of those who raised any doubts about their motives and actions. At least for a while. I suspect that the trauma of the September 11, 2001 attacks had something to do with the slow response to a much greater danger to the fabric of our country. The Constitution and the patriotic abuse of the freedoms it gaurrantees. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 08:00:22 [Permalink]
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But it's not really about the flag, is it? |
It's mostly about indoctrination. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/06/2007 08:02:35 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 08:36:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
But it's not really about the flag, is it? |
It's mostly about indoctrination.
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Bingo!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Put Away the Flags
