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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2007 : 23:06:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I do not have enough information to state what caused the depletion of the males. |
Nobody said that you did. You've written many words without answering the question I asked. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2007 : 23:16:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Maybe this common bacteria was not the cause of the depletion of the males. |
And what would the consequences of that be, regarding the whole of the theory of evolution?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 00:01:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
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Which is exactly why you're widely considered to be a troll: you argue over many posts about something which - even if you are correct - will have no effect whatsoever.
In this case, for example, there is so huge a pile of evidence in favor of evolutionary theory that even if the butterfly thing is shown to not have happened due to evolutionary processes, it won't be a mortal blow to the theory. In fact, if it's shown to have not been evolution, it cannot be a problem for the theory.
For there to be a problem with evolutionary theory, there would have to be some observed phenomenon which runs contrary to the theory. We'd need to find fossils of bunnies from the Devonian Era, for example. Just because there might be another explanation for the butterflies doesn't mean evolutionary theory is wrong. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 00:12:54 [Permalink]
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The sky is blue. This does not support the theory of evolution. Nor does the theory need all irrelevancies to fit into it, for it to remain the most basic unifying principle of biology. The first confirmed Devonian bunny, however, would utterly destroy the theory of evolution. Dedicate your life, Jerome, to finding that fossil.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/14/2007 00:13:43 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/14/2007 : 02:30:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
| Dave asked, What "entire process" does one need to show? Be specific. |
One creature becoming another creature.
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Okey-dokey, O ye who will not research: How 'bout hyracotherium becoming equus?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:21:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
none |
Which is exactly why you're widely considered to be a troll: you argue over many posts about something which - even if you are correct - will have no effect whatsoever.
In this case, for example, there is so huge a pile of evidence in favor of evolutionary theory that even if the butterfly thing is shown to not have happened due to evolutionary processes, it won't be a mortal blow to the theory. In fact, if it's shown to have not been evolution, it cannot be a problem for the theory.
For there to be a problem with evolutionary theory, there would have to be some observed phenomenon which runs contrary to the theory. We'd need to find fossils of bunnies from the Devonian Era, for example. Just because there might be another explanation for the butterflies doesn't mean evolutionary theory is wrong.
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Your question and my answer has nothing to do with the fact that this example of "fast track" evolution is without merit or even a modicum fact to state such an assertion. Ahh, but for the true believers this is just another in the truth of evolution. The "huge pile" of evidence is lacking under examination just as this small example is.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:24:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
The sky is blue. This does not support the theory of evolution. Nor does the theory need all irrelevancies to fit into it, for it to remain the most basic unifying principle of biology. The first confirmed Devonian bunny, however, would utterly destroy the theory of evolution. Dedicate your life, Jerome, to finding that fossil.
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You are the one making the extraordinary claim that genetic mutations are the device of evolution, as such you should provide the proof not me.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:46:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by HalfMooner
The sky is blue. This does not support the theory of evolution. Nor does the theory need all irrelevancies to fit into it, for it to remain the most basic unifying principle of biology. The first confirmed Devonian bunny, however, would utterly destroy the theory of evolution. Dedicate your life, Jerome, to finding that fossil.
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You are the one making the extraordinary claim that genetic mutations are the device of evolution, as such you should provide the proof not me.
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Okay-dokey: | Mutations create variations in the gene pool, and the less favorable (or deleterious) mutations are removed from the gene pool by natural selection, while more favorable (beneficial or advantageous) ones tend to accumulate, resulting in evolutionary change. For example, a butterfly may develop offspring with a new mutation caused say by ultraviolet light from the sun. In most cases, this mutation is not good, since obviously there was no 'purpose' for such change at the molecular level. However, sometimes a mutation may change the butterfly's color, making it harder for predators to see it; this is an advantage and the chances of this butterfly surviving and producing its own offspring are a little better, and over time the number of butterflies with this mutation may form a large percentage of the species. Neutral mutations are defined as mutations whose effects do not influence the fitness of either the species or the individuals who make up the species. These can accumulate over time due to genetic drift. The overwhelming majority of mutations have no significant effect, since DNA repair is able to mend most changes before they become permanent mutations, and many organisms have mechanisms for eliminating otherwise permanently mutated somatic cells. |
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:48:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
| Dave asked, What "entire process" does one need to show? Be specific. |
One creature becoming another creature.
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Okey-dokey, O ye who will not research: How 'bout hyracotherium becoming equus?
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Hyracotherium: This seems to be a dog. Naming it "dawn horse" does not make it a horse.
Orohippus: Another dog like creature. Called a "middle horse".
Looks like this horse was a meat eater!
I can not take it anymore! This is fraud!
Look at the angle presented in the front legs; this animal could not walk; yet if you straighten the angle it is a dog!
Hyracotherium
Modern dog
Modern horse
Just because you call a lemon a strawberry does not make the lemon sweet.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:49:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You are the one making the extraordinary claim that genetic mutations are the device of evolution, as such you should provide the proof not me.
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Well, you see, it's like this: That is the accepted scientific understanding, so it is absolutely not an "extraordinary claim." No amount of clueless handwaving will make it otherwise.
Here's a link to Wiki's "remedial" article on the subject.
The Devonian Bunny, meanwhile, remains to be found.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:51:41 [Permalink]
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| Filthy, I was looking for an example of a positive genetic mutation that changed a species. A difference in a "kind" is not a genetic mutation that changes the species; these differences are within the species. |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:54:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You are the one making the extraordinary claim that genetic mutations are the device of evolution, as such you should provide the proof not me.
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Well, you see, it's like this: That is the accepted scientific understanding, so it is absolutely not an "extraordinary claim." No amount of clueless handwaving will make it otherwise.
Here's a link to Wiki's "remedial" article on the subject.
The Devonian Bunny, meanwhile, remains to be found.
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As you have nothing other than speculation, you rely on an appeal to authoritative speculators.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 10:56:14 [Permalink]
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Also sprach Jerome: | Hyracotherium: This seems to be a dog. Naming it "dawn horse" does not make it a horse. |
And that's your scientific opinion, Dr. Gnome?
Calling it a horse "a dog" does not make you appear less of an idiot.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/14/2007 10:56:57 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 11:19:57 [Permalink]
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Ah but Jerome, you saying it ain't hittin' on shit any more than if I or anyone just says it. Produce some reliable, scientific studies in support of your rather pretty presentation. All you have there is your opinion and your interperation of some photos, which is worth no more than anyone else's and a lot less than some.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/14/2007 11:21:04 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2007 : 11:22:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Ah but Jerome, you saying it ain't hittin' on shit any more than if I or anyone just says it. Produce some reliable, scientific studies in support of your rather pretty presentation. All you have there is your opinion and your interperation of some photos, which is worth no more than anyone else's and a lot less than some.
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You need an "expert panel" to tell you that the angle can not hold the creature?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Evolution caught in the act!
