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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2008 : 22:29:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gary 7.1
Being a wave and particle at the same time is a paradox. |
Not if you understand the underlying reality, which isn't amenable to "common sense" or "inner wisdom." It only seems self-contradictory so long as you refuse to examine the details.| A paradox only occurs when we have a failure to see the truth of the situation. |
Yes, Gary, you fail to see the truth of the situation. The physicists do not.| A photon is a wave and a particle at all times is very reminiscent of Orwellian mind control jargon. |
Brilliant, Gary: accuse those you disagree with of engaging in the behavior in which you are currently engaged. Classic projection, a clear sign of a closed mind.
I note, for example, that you simply denied the concept. You couldn't even bother to muster the curiosity to say, "how so?" And now, it's too late. It's actually been too late for quite some time, since long ago you basically insisted that standards of evidence were nothing more than attempts at mind control.
So what are we left with? You, Gary, utterly refusing to try to understand physics, and unable to humble yourself for fear of admitting you were wrong.
You also wrote:| Expressing ideas while considering possibilities and theories we may not believe is hardly the same as lying. |
You haven't expressed any curiosity about any other possibilities or theories. You've prejudicially shot them all down. You are lying about lying, in order to try to save face.| Considering the possibility of mind control and questioning dictatorial controls and restrictions in no way indicates paranoia. |
How could it not? As I said, once you are open to the possibility of mind control, you must acknowledge that you are currently being mind-controlled into your current position, which you have steadfastly refused to do, ignoring the irony therein. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gary 7.1
Skeptic Friend
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 22:29:33 [Permalink]
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What you see as delusional, egoistical, biased and prejudice must only be a reflection of your own delusion, ego, bias and bigotry.
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That is a possibility for sure - the word "must" is clearly not part of any logical response, but more part of an emotional, antagonistic and dictatorial one.
It would be logical then to consider you a control freak and a bully. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 22:37:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gary 7.1
That is a possibility for sure - the word "must" is clearly not part of any logical response, but more part of an emotional, antagonistic and dictatorial one. |
Since the assumptions I used were yours, "must" follows logically.| It would be logical then to consider you a control freak and a bully. |
There's more of that Orwellian "logic" from you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gary 7.1
Skeptic Friend
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 22:40:20 [Permalink]
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How could it not? As I said, once you are open to the possibility of mind control, you must acknowledge that you are currently being mind-controlled into your current position, which you have steadfastly refused to do, ignoring the irony therein.
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Again the word "must"! I might also be implying that I have experienced and explored the limitations and restrictions imposed upon us through mind control and subliminal programming and found a means of escaping from it. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 22:50:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gary 7.1
Again the word "must"! I might also be implying that I have experienced and explored the limitations and restrictions imposed upon us through mind control and subliminal programming and found a means of escaping from it. |
No, you've just been mind-controlled into thinking that you have escaped from it. Once you assume that mind control is a possibility, there is no freedom from it, because anything you might think could be the result of mind control, and you can't tell the difference. Thinking you can tell the difference might only be the result of mind control. Your statement that you might have found a way out only demonstrates that you haven't followed your premises to their logical conclusions, but stopped when you found a happy place supporting your wanna-be-superhuman ego somewhere in the middle. Honestly, do you think you're Neo or just Morpheus? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 23:22:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gary 7.1
Considering the possibility of mind control and questioning dictatorial controls and restrictions in no way indicates paranoia.
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Considering their possibility, no. But making the accusation that they are there, if in fact they aren't, would pretty much be a textbook example of paranoia.
You know, part of me thinks Gary is some bored philosophy student just taking the piss. It's like he's using every bad argument he knows just to see if any of it will stick, to see how far he can string us along before we refuse to go on believing that anyone could be so confused.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2008 : 23:24:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Honestly, do you think you're Neo or just Morpheus?
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 Quote of the thread.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2008 : 04:01:26 [Permalink]
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Hmph. I see that in a few brief hours, we have decended from discussing metaphysical nonsense to exploring the philosophical septic tank.
Gary, you keep prattling on about "mind control." Indeed, it's been a sort of sub-topic throughout the thread. Ok, mind control implies a controller and a controller implies a purpose, so I must ask: what controller using which methods, and to what end? If you cannot answer, you are merely begging the question: "I know that there is mind control because my mind is not controlled."
Now, there's plenty of mind control out there -- just study any religion -- but your implication is that no one is allowed free thought and lack the intelligence to use it, anyway, unattributed.
Throughout the conversation, you have supported your arguments with hand-waving and the odd red herring to change the course of it when it refuses go as you direct. And thus, we ramble on and I, for one, am wondering if you have any grasp at all on what the hell you're talking about.
No one is more open-minded than a skeptic, but, to paraphrase Sagan, only to a point before our brains fall out. Should the claim be a fraud (Uri Geller, et al.) or beyond research & review (God), it is scarcly worth argument because neither have any empirical support.
Look, if you have something, anything, solid to support your assertions, any of them, do please produce it. The suspense is getting tiresome.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/29/2008 04:05:16 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 06:39:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
You know, part of me thinks Gary is some bored philosophy student just taking the piss. It's like he's using every bad argument he knows just to see if any of it will stick, to see how far he can string us along before we refuse to go on believing that anyone could be so confused. |
If so, then it would be clear that he's got little experience with actual psychotics. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 06:48:52 [Permalink]
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Hooded Figure: My Lord. My Lord, we must attack, now!
Satan: What's the point?! They have a Keanu Reeves now. |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 08/29/2008 10:55:34 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 08:02:43 [Permalink]
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Ok, let's summarize.
You reached a higher level of conciousness, that allows you to see things more truly and to realize we all are deluded.
But you will never have any way to know that they do not exist an even higher level of conciousness where you'd realize that you, indeed, are the deluded one and that we are, actually, right.
Or, you might think that something is blue, but you'll never be even remotely confident that it is actually blue. Indeed, tomorrow you might reach a higher level of conciousness and it will appear blue to you. And the following week, maybe it will be red.
In other term, everything could be true and everything could be false and you'll never have any way to know. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 08:56:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Ok, let's summarize.
You reached a higher level of conciousness, that allows you to see things more truly and to realize we all are deluded.
But you will never have any way to know that they do not exist an even higher level of conciousness where you'd realize that you, indeed, are the deluded one and that we are, actually, right. |
Yeah, one of my disappointments with the Matrix trilogy is that they never had any of the characters saying, "wait a minute... If that life wasn't real, then how do I know that this one is real?" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 09:49:49 [Permalink]
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Yep; that'd could have been a twist ending too.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 10:53:29 [Permalink]
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Too easy, plus it would ruin the whole "imply Neo is JC returned" thing they did.
How about the St Elsewhere ending, The Matrix only exists in the mind of an autistic kid! |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Gary 7.1
Skeptic Friend
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2008 : 11:04:39 [Permalink]
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You reached a higher level of conciousness, that allows you to see things more truly and to realize we all are deluded.
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No, actually I'm just saying I'm open to the possibility of higher states of consciousness and that, in all probability, due to amorphous nature of reality that the quantum mechanics have talked about, skeptics don't have a leg to stand on. |
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Shirley Maclaine & Kevin Ryerson
