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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2007 :  20:04:59  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Big Brother is listening


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell

Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2007 :  06:14:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a ninformational piece, no opinion.

All I can say is..
Yep
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2007 :  18:35:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What does everybody think about the ability of the FBI to listen to your in person conversations (not phone conversations) from your cell phone even when it is turned off?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2007 :  18:54:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

What does everybody think about the ability of the FBI to listen to your in person conversations (not phone conversations) from your cell phone even when it is turned off?




And since they would be required by law (something that you have continually failed to research or acknowledge) to get a warrant either through the regular courts or the FISA courts, what is your issue?

Since I don't own a cell phone, don't mean shit to me.

And I'm sure the Federal government could give a shit less about me wanting the President impeached, the attractiveness of passing females, NASCAR rumors, or health problems I may be experiencing.

Got anything else, Chicken Little?

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  04:26:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

What does everybody think about the ability of the FBI to listen to your in person conversations (not phone conversations) from your cell phone even when it is turned off?
I would say that the FBI had to much time on their hands. That is if this had even the most remote chance of actually occurring.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  07:33:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

What does everybody think about the ability of the FBI to listen to your in person conversations (not phone conversations) from your cell phone even when it is turned off?
I would say that the FBI had to much time on their hands. That is if this had even the most remote chance of actually occurring.


It has occurred.

FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  07:52:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do you have opinions or just links? Scary and not unexpected from uncle sam.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  07:58:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I see this as an area of concern. The fact that they have targeted Mafioso so far does not mean that they can't listen in on anyone involved in an activity they might consider subversive. And that list can become pretty fuzzy.

I believe that wiretapping must be approved by court order. At least it was until the patriot act, and even then only in Bush's mind. And I can't see how this differs from wiretapping other than the fact that is wireless, so it seems to me it should fall under the same laws.

That a judge allowed it after the fact should again be of some concern.

I wouldn't wave this away.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  09:36:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Originally posted by moakley

Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME

What does everybody think about the ability of the FBI to listen to your in person conversations (not phone conversations) from your cell phone even when it is turned off?
I would say that the FBI had to much time on their hands. That is if this had even the most remote chance of actually occurring.


It has occurred.

FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool
Your question specifically said "your cell phone" and my comment was in regard to it being my cell phone. Since I am not involved in any criminal activity, and lead a fairly simple and decent life, I stand by my comment.

I have to assume that since this is being permitted as evidence in a criminal trial, then it is allowed within the current law. I not sure why using this surveillance technique upsets you. Are you a criminal?

This does not upset or concern me in the least. It does not effect me. Big brother is not listening or out to get me.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  10:21:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I used to feel much the way you do, moakley, but I understand now that the concern is about the potential for abuse.

How it affects you is when the party in power begins to grab for more and more power by eavesdropping not on you, personally, but on opposition leaders who haven't done anything criminal, either. Such activities work to rob you of your vote by generating blackmail or other leverage that can be applied to do nothing more than dissuade decent candidates from running for office.

All illegal, of course, but when has that stopped anyone?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  13:08:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At least up until the Ericsson model R520, this kind of surveillance was not possible without some serious firmware hacking of the phone.

The Chief of Swedish Security Police made a totall ass of himself some 7-8 years ago when he made exactly the same claim.

Given my extensive knowledge of the inner workings of mobile phones from Ericsson models GH337 through R520 (including most models manufactured in between), it is not possible to do such listening in, unless you swap the victim's phone with a prepared bugged replica.
And though the firmware and especially software of today's phones have become more modular, it would be irresponsible for phone manufacturers to produce phones with such blatant security holes.

I call this idea crap. However, I understand that certain people have a compulsive need to believe stories such as this to fuel their paranoia.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  16:16:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks like you're right, Mab.

United States District Court,
S.D. New York.
UNITED STATES of America,
v.
John TOMERO, et al., Defendants.
No. S2 06 Crim. 0008(LAK).
Nov. 27, 2006.

MEMORANDUM OPINION

LEWIS A. KAPLAN, District Judge:


… Thirty-four defendants are charged with various criminal acts
associated with the operations of the Genovese organized crime
family. Ten move to suppress conversations intercepted by listening
devices, colloquially known as "roving bugs," installed in cellular
telephones
….

…By February 2004, the government had learned that Peter Peluso, an
attorney and close associate of Ardito, was relaying messages to and from high-ranking family members who were wary of government listening devices and who used Peluso as a messenger to avoid meeting together directly. In a renewal application dated February 6, 2004, the government sought, and Judge Jones in due course granted, authority to install a roving bug in Peluso's cellular telephone. This order was renewed several times throughout 2004, as the government continued to identify locations where Peluso and Ardito discussed family matters and learned that the subjects were growing increasingly cautious of government surveillance.

n January 2005, Peluso agreed to cooperate with the government's
investigation. At that point the government removed the listening
device in his cellular telephone
and Peluso began recording
conversations with family members consensually by wearing a
microphone. On July 7, 2005, Peluso pleaded guilty, pursuant to a
cooperation agreement with the government, to a four-count
information, charging him with, among other things, engaging in a
pattern of racketeering activity.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  18:25:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It looks like with the locater on new phones a program is downloaded onto the phone. No physical contact is needed.

Can You Hear Me Now?

"The FBI can access cell phones and modify them remotely without ever having to physically handle them," James Atkinson, a counterintelligence security consultant, told ABC News. "Any recently manufactured cell phone has a built-in tracking device, which can allow eavesdroppers to pinpoint someone's location to within just a few feet," he added.



What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  19:02:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Tracking" is not "recording," Jerome.

Legally, all cell phones in the USA are being required to have a method of being located. This can be, but often isn't, GPS. (Even older cell phones can be crudely tracked, by checking to see which local cell antennas they connect through.) That's to make emergency response available to someone who can't give their location. Regular land-line phones have had a location system called E-911 established for many years, and it's a life-saver.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/19/2007 19:07:35
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  19:08:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

"Tracking" is not "recording," Jerome.

Legally, all cell phones in the USA are being required to have a method of being located. This can be, but often isn't, GPS. That's to make emergency response available to someone who can't give their location. Regular land-line phones have had a location system called E-911 established for many years, and it's a life-saver.




Yes, and with the tracking ability they can download a program that allows them to listen to one on one, person to person conversations.


A recent court ruling in a case against the Genovese crime family revealed that the FBI has the ability from a remote location to activate a cell phone and turn its microphone into a listening device that transmits to an FBI listening post, a method known as a "roving bug."





What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2007 :  19:15:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the report says they can listen. I don't know enough to comment.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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