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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2007 : 11:56:30
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The Clinton scam is symptomatic of the death of liberalism – not its narcissistic, war-loving wing ("humanitarian intervention"), which is ascendant, but the liberalism that speaks against crimes committed in its name, while extending rungs of the economic ladder to those below. It was Clinton's promotion of the former and crushing of the latter that so inspired new Labour's "project." Clinton, not Bush, was Cool Britannia's true Mafia godfather. Keen observers of Tony Blair will recall that during one of his many farewell speeches, the sociopath did a weird impersonation of Clinton's head wiggle.
Clinton is able to make a shedload a money because he is contrasted with the despised Bush as the flawed good guy who did his best for the world and brought economic boom to the US – the fabled American dream no less. Both notions are finely spun lies. What Clinton and Blair have most in common is that they are the most violent leaders of their countries in the modern era; that includes Bush. Consider Clinton's true record:
In 1993, he pursued George H. W. Bush's invasion of Somalia. He invaded Haiti in 1994. He bombed Bosnia in 1995 and Serbia in 1999. In 1998, he bombed Afghanistan; and, at the height of his Monica Lewinsky troubles, he momentarily diverted the headline writers to a major "terrorist target" in Sudan that he ordered destroyed with an onslaught of missiles. It turned out to be sub-Saharan Africa's largest pharmaceutical plant, the only source of chloroquine, the treatment for malaria, and other drugs that were lifelines to hundreds of thousands. As a result, wrote Jonathan Belke, then of the Near East Foundation, "tens of thousands of people – many of them children – have suffered and died from malaria, tuberculosis and other treatable diseases."
Long before Shock and Awe, Clinton was destroying and killing in Iraq. Under the lawless pretense of a "no-fly zone," he oversaw the longest allied aerial bombardment since the Second World War. This was hardly reported. At the same time, he imposed and tightened a Washington-led economic siege estimated to have killed a million civilians. "We think the price is worth it," said his secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, in an exquisite moment of honesty.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 13:56:00 [Permalink]
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The most violent leaders? Looking back it seems a pretty close match. Maybe the impression given is because Clinton´s armed conflicts did not receive sufficient publicity so it contrasts with his good guy´s image. However, it´s hard to conclude if he was a more violent leader than Nixxon, Reagan, Bush senior, Bush junior or many other leaders from around the world, just as violent (or even more) but much less powerful.
How would you feel about a (de facto) President that makes 30,000 of his countrymen "disappear" (many others were officially executed) alluding to a "war on terror"?
We had a General, here in Argentina, who did exactly that. His claim was that the Communists were about to take control of the country, so he overthrew the democratically elected goverment in the 70´s and started a proper "war on terror". He was completely backed-up by the US Goverment.
By the early 80´s, the Argentinan people were absolutely fed-up with his goverment. So, as to regain the people´s sympathy, he started yet another war. This time, he tried to forcefully retake the Malvinas Islands (Falklands) from Britain. Problem was (besides Britain having a professional and better army and lots of training in actual wars) that his Rightwing goverment was so corrupt and had stolen so much from the education, health and even military budget, that our army got defeated quite quickly.
His trick back-fired and he got a big kick up his arse (instead, the British had to put up with many more years of Tatcher).
Now, don´t think I am biased towards rightwing goverments. I am quite aware of the brutality of most (if not all) communist goverments in history. Besides, now-a-days, some european centre-right goverments seem more progressive and less reactionary than other leftwing ones.
Cheers
perro de tokio |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 15:24:27 [Permalink]
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It's hard to tell for sure your purpose in posting this, Gorgo, because after all, you haven't offered any opinion or commentary whatsoever. But I'll bite. It seems you're once again indicating that you have a problem with Bill Clinton. Although it might be nice to magically eliminate particular past actions of particular past presidents, obviously we can't. So what would you suggest as a reasonable course of action to resolve what you perceive to be the problems with Bill Clinton?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 17:54:54 [Permalink]
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"I say we kill him!
I say we hang him, then we kill him!
I say we stomp him!
Then we tattoo him!
Then we hang him!
And then we kill him!" |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2007 : 22:56:54 [Permalink]
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I don't think much of John Pilger. Chomsky likes him, and I think that's reason enough to dismiss him. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 02:00:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
I don't think much of John Pilger. Chomsky likes him, and I think that's reason enough to dismiss him.
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That's a fallacious argument, Mycroft: Reducio ad Chomskium.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 05:02:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
"I say we kill him!
I say we hang him and then we kill him.
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Benjamin Gault: I've never been to a hanging. Mother might let you take me.
Carrie Gault: We'll be on the stage for home. Besides, you know how I feel about executions. There's some good in every man - killing him kills that, too.
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From here. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 05:24:44 [Permalink]
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Heh, I'm hearing from people who would vote for Hillary just to get Bill back in at least the vicinity of the White House. Me, I'd vote for Hillary for no better reason than to keep the Republican out, whoever he might be.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 05:30:02 [Permalink]
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You might not agree with the death penalty, but I'd say a lot of people here would think it would be a good idea to at least put away someone who murdered as many as Clinton. Why is there no outcry? Why are people paying to hear him speak? Why are people considering making him and his wife even richer by voting for her?
Because he didn't kill Americans.
I say we hang him, then we kill him!
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 05:31:24 [Permalink]
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So far, she's done what she can to be a Republican.
Originally posted by filthy
Heh, I'm hearing from people who would vote for Hillary just to get Bill back in at least the vicinity of the White House. Me, I'd vote for Hillary for no better reason than to keep the Republican out, whoever he might be.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 06:35:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I don't think much of John Pilger. Chomsky likes him, and I think that's reason enough to dismiss him.
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That's a fallacious argument, Mycroft: Reducio ad Chomskium.
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Lol! :) |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 08:04:26 [Permalink]
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And what is your point, that you think it's a good idea to support these criminals and that you do what you can to make them richer as well?
Originally posted by GeeMack
It's hard to tell for sure your purpose in posting this, Gorgo, because after all, you haven't offered any opinion or commentary whatsoever. But I'll bite. It seems you're once again indicating that you have a problem with Bill Clinton. Although it might be nice to magically eliminate particular past actions of particular past presidents, obviously we can't. So what would you suggest as a reasonable course of action to resolve what you perceive to be the problems with Bill Clinton?
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 09:19:03 [Permalink]
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Aolus acronymium sillyassus |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 13:34:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo...
And what is your point, that you think it's a good idea to support these criminals and that you do what you can to make them richer as well? |
My point is... well... allow me to phrase my posting in such a way that even a complete moron might understand it...
| It's hard to tell for sure your purpose in posting this, Gorgo, because after all, you haven't offered any opinion or commentary whatsoever. But I'll bite. It seems you're once again indicating that you have a problem with Bill Clinton. Although it might be nice to magically eliminate particular past actions of particular past presidents, obviously we can't. So what would you suggest as a reasonable course of action to resolve what you perceive to be the problems with Bill Clinton? |
For those with serious reading comprehension problems, nothing there says anything about supporting anyone for anything, nor does it express any position whatsoever about making anyone richer or poorer or anything of the sort. The question mark at the end indicates that I'm seeking your response regarding a practical, reasonable solution to your problem with Bill Clinton.
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| Edited by - GeeMack on 08/10/2007 13:37:20 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2007 : 16:02:03 [Permalink]
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GeeMack, you have to know that Gorgo isn't going to answer that in any meaningful way. He's been asked that question, and several variants of it, atleast a dozen times in the last year or so.
Even when people agree with his basic premise Gorgo will criticize them for not following him off the logic-cliff.
This is a futile path, trying to get Gorgo to have a substantive discussion about some practical solutions to problems. He has nothing but complaints.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2007 : 07:35:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Heh, I'm hearing from people who would vote for Hillary just to get Bill back in at least the vicinity of the White House. Me, I'd vote for Hillary for no better reason than to keep the Republican out, whoever he might be.
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Yep, be part of the problem. |
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Good Old Bill, the Liberal Hero
Topic Locked
