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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2007 : 21:37:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Five copies of the same link that's in the OP, Jerome?
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Opps, still getting the hang of this internet thing.
There are five examples on the left side of the link in the OP which should satisfy the question asked by The Rat. |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 21:58:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Is not dark matter a theory based on zero evidence, just the inability to explain various phenomenon? |
Not at all. Gravity and mass are perfectly mainstream theories, very highly tested, and they, when coupled with direct observations that are reproducible by anyone and everyone, suggest the presence of a substance that we cannot otherwise detect. This is in no way analogous to ET visitation ideas.
Plus, I didn't say "based on zero evidence." There is no modern theory which is premised upon the rejection of all other theories meant to address the same subject. In fact, basing a theory on "no other theory can explain this phenomenon," as Dr. Haisch's trusted sources imply, simply leaves the door open for some future theory to destroy the theory in question by actually explaining the phenomenon with positive evidence. Theories of negation are the weakest of all possible theories.
You also wrote:| Opps, still getting the hang of this internet thing. |
When dealing with pages with frames, you can right-click on a link and select "copy shortcut" and then paste it, or you can right-click and select "open in new window" (or "new tab") and the copy-and-paste the proper URL from the navigation bar. When you're using Internet Explorer, at least.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 22:15:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck...
Ironically, this is a perfect analysis of the remarkable response(s) that I received when I first posted my question in the SFI forum several weeks ago. |
You clearly misunderstand what happened here during your last trolling session. You're playing it off as if somehow the regulars here were responsible for your lying and your shitty communication skills. You've got no balls bngbuck, no honesty and no integrity. And obviously you just can't avoid being a dickhead. You're a real piece of work.
Originally posted by Dave W....
Frankly, bngbuck, I can do without your snotty misrepresentation of my involvement in the previous thread. |
Yep. No kidding.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 22:47:57 [Permalink]
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Dave W......
I was unable to find anything on that web site labelled as a mission statement. Did you mean the intoductory "letter" thing on the homepage?
I understood that Dr. Haisch was, among other things, explaining the purpose of his website. Hence the use of the word "mission" Perhaps I was wrong. Your choice of the words introductory "letter" may have been better. Your use of the word "thing" was definitely perjorative in the sense of depreciatory. I feel that the hostility is mutual. I am not concerned with who first expressed it. Suffice to say that we don't like each other.
But Dave, despite your paranoia, I really did want your opinion and the opinion of others on Dr. Haisch's introductory letter. You have given me yours. Thank you. I would now like to hear from any others that may care to comment. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2007 : 23:31:04 [Permalink]
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I was unable to find anything on that web site labelled as a mission statement. Did you mean the intoductory "letter" thing on the homepage?
I understood that Dr. Haisch was, among other things, explaining the purpose of his website. Hence the use of the word "mission". Perhaps I was wrong. Your choice of the words introductory "letter" may have been better. However, your use of the word "thing" was definitely perjorative in the sense of depreciatory. I feel that the hostility is mutual. I am not concerned with who first expressed it or why. Suffice to say that we don't like each other. It has nothing to do with attempting to communicate. And frankly, Dave, I think we can both do without snotty comments.
But, Dave, despite your paranoia, I really did want your opinion and the opinions of others on Dr. Haisch's introductory letter. You have given me yours. Thank you. I would now like to hear from any others on this forum that may care to commentregarding Dr. Haisch. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 02:38:59 [Permalink]
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OK, so I ran a quick Wiki on the good doctor. He seems to be a respected astronomer with a few, let us say: 'odd' ideas. Beyond education, occupation and preoccupation, not much different from anyone else, really. Bernard Haisch is a German-born American astrophysicist who has done research in solar-stellar astrophysics and stochastic electrodynamics. He has developed with Alfonso Rueda a speculative theory that the non-zero lowest energy state of the vacuum, as predicted by quantum mechanics, might provide a physical explanation for the origin of inertia, and more controversially, might someday be used for spacecraft propulsion.
Haisch has advocated the serious scientific study of phenomena outside the traditional scope of science and is known for his interest in the UFO phenomenon as well as a variety of other unorthodox topics.
Since 2002 Haisch has been involved with the ManyOne and related Digital Universe projects which aim to produce, among other things, a multimedia online encyclopedia.
In 2006 Haisch published a popular book in which he attempted to reconcile modern scientific belief with traditional religious belief. He attributes his spiritual interests to his educational experience at the Latin School of Indianapolis (a high school affiliated with the Catholic Church), and at the St. Meinrad Seminary and Archabbey.
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And, if I might be allowed a bit of cherry-picking: Haisch has published more than one hundred research papers on a variety of topics, many in very prestigious journals such as Nature, Science, Physical Review, Astrophysical Journal, and Annalen der Physik. He also served for ten years as an editor of the Astrophysical Journal.
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So, the guy has credibility (unusual in many of the references we get in here). But, like all human beings, he speculates and some of those speculations are pretty far out. I'd like to sit down and share a pitcher and a bowl with him. I think it'd be an interesting conversation.
My opinion......
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:15:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck...
And frankly, Dave, I think we can both do without snotty comments. |
Immediately followed by...
| But, Dave, despite your paranoia, I really did want your opinion and the opinions of others on Dr. Haisch's introductory letter. |
Yep, dickhead. When you've proven yourself to be dishonest, as you have, bngbuck, other people's concerns that you may be pursuing some kind of hidden agenda again isn't paranoia. When you come around here you should expect to be treated like the liar that you are.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:21:45 [Permalink]
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Geemack said:
You've got no balls bngbuck, no honesty and no integrity. And obviously you just can't avoid being a dickhead. You're a real piece of work.
Yep, dickhead. When you've proven yourself to be dishonest, as you have, bngbuck, other people's concerns that you may be pursuing some kind of hidden agenda again isn't paranoia. When you come around here you should expect to be treated like the liar that you are. |
Why are you posting?
Are you middle school age?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:49:46 [Permalink]
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The Rat.....
Thanks for your comment and question. I can't speak for Dr. Haisch, but I will pass your question on to him and ask if he cares to respond. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 08:52:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Your use of the word "thing" was definitely perjorative in the sense of depreciatory. |
Even if I had been perjorative towards Dr. Haisch's website, why would you take it personally?| But Dave, despite your paranoia... |
It's odd that you admit you were being hostile to me after receiving no personal slight, but call me the paranoid one. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 10:31:05 [Permalink]
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I read through Dr Haisch's introductory letter. I might quibble with a few of his assertions. However, a call for the middle ground is, in general, a safe approach. Of course, one might say that we should call for a middle ground in, say, the creation-evolution debate, too. And in those cases, I (and many others) would disagree.
So this, perhaps, comes back to some of Dr. Haisch's original assertions. If they are all true, then indeed his call is a valid one. I, however, am less convinced that, for instance, "our best modern physics and astrophysics theories arguably predict that we should be experiencing extraterrestrial visitation." My previous understanding of the topic suggested otherwise, though I was not aware of Dr. Olim's 2003 paper until now, and perhaps he's made a compelling case.
Again, I am not trained in such areas so my assessment of the latest in the field may simply be behind. That said, my gut instinct from what I've read up till now (however behind it may be) suggests that Dr. Haisch is being too generous to, shall we say, the pro-UFO crowd. Obviously more research in my part is in order. |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 11:00:54 [Permalink]
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In my very, very, humble opinion I think that in this thread "UFO" is implicitly taken to mean extraterrestrial ship when we all know (we had a few posts about it before) it just means Unidentified Flying Object, which is just that: something flying, floating or hovering that, for some reason or other, whoever is watching it cannot identified.
Again, itīs a big mistake to take UFO to mean anything except that. If I say I saw an UFO a lot of people will look at me funny and start asking if I believe in Extraterrestrial life when my statemente did not imply anything like that.
So, itīs people who take the word UFO to mean anything else than what it really means the culprits of making the claims of UFO sightings to be taken as something ridiculous or a lie.
Let me see... UFO sightings? Yes, a few times I saw lights in the sky which I could not identify. |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 11:26:09 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist.....
Thanks for your substantive response concerning Dr. Haisch's letter. Others have commented on his statement that "our best modern physics and astrophysics theories arguably predict that we should be experiencing extraterrestrial visitation." I will ask him to expand on that topic.
I asked Dave if he felt that Haisch needed to provide documentation of UFO incidents in order for him (Dave) to consider Haisch's views credible. Dave basically responded "yes". I infer from your post that you pretty much feel the same way. However, you state that you need to do more research. Would you like me to ask Haisch to detail the specific incidents he refers to in his assessment? I suspect, from my own experience, that it may involve considerable printed material in addition to that found on the Internet. He is a very busy man, yet his UFO avocation seems to be high on his interest chart and he is quite accessible. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 11:47:31 [Permalink]
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Perrodetokio.....
In my reading of Dr. Haisch's letter I got the general sense that he was talking about UFO's in a extraterrestrial spaceship sense.
My concern, as expressed in the original thread OP, is primarily with sightings of aerial or space located objects or lights, possibly alien, possibly not. My purpose in starting this thread was to gather reaction to Dr. Haisch's statements, some of which are only tangential to the topic I am writing on. |
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Brights' opinions of select UFO sightings P.S.
