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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  04:01:39  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dig this:

How this 12inch miracle tube could halve heating bills
Amazing British invention creates MORE energy than you put into it - and could soon be warming your home

It sounds too good to be true - not to mention the fact that it violates almost every known law of physics.

But British scientists claim they have invented a revolutionary device that seems to 'create' energy from virtually nothing.

Their so-called thermal energy cell could soon be fitted into ordinary homes, halving domestic heating bills and making a major contribution towards cutting carbon emissions.


Uh-huh... According to the article, they invented it yet don't know how it works. I will be very interested to see how huge the energy savings will be with this gadget in use.

When something looks too good to be true, it most likely is.

Emphasis mine.



[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

JohnOAS
SFN Regular

Australia
800 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  04:31:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit JohnOAS's Homepage Send JohnOAS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I must admit, don't get it. It aint 1st April, and as far as I can tell from the URL, the site seems legit, as these things go. None of the "sceptical independent scientists" were named, so it's kind of difficult to check.

I've no experience with the UK Mail on Sunday (24 Hours a day!), they certainly do seem quite obsessed with celebrities. Maybe this is par for the course.

It's not well written enough to be an Onion piece, and I can't see any particularly humorous angle, so I'm guessing it's just plain old fashioned BS.




John's just this guy, you know.
Edited by - JohnOAS on 09/17/2007 04:32:24
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  05:30:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My bullshit detector also produces more energy than it receives, and this bullshit could light up a city.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  05:37:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's gotta be true: It uses a "secret catalyst"!

Checking on the "Jim Lyons" of the University of York, I found this:
James Lyons is a Business Development Manager for the University of York's Enterprise and Innovation Office.

He is a Chartered Engineer, qualified in both Electrical and Aeronautical Engineering. Following Student/Graduate apprenticeships in the Aerospace Industry, he joined the military future projects team of what was to become British Aerospace. He became Chief Engineer responsible for new aircraft, in particular supersonic V/STOL projects. He was in charge of Harrier and Hawk developments as well as other innovative classified projects and technology. He undertook corporate Business Development mainly through Europe and the US.
Lyons' title at U. of York is not "scientist," but "Business Development Manager." Nor is his specialty in science, rather engineering. Sounds to me, assuming he wasn't misquoted in the first place, that Lyons has been getting a little over-enthusiastic about one of the businesses he's trying to help. (Might Lyons own shares in the Ecowatts company?) As an engineer, he certainly should know better. If he were a scientist he probably would know better.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/17/2007 05:38:32
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  05:42:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bingo! From a woo site:
Jim's formal education was in Technology. He holds degrees in Physics and Engineering and his postgraduate work was in Aeronautics.

After a long spell in the Aerospace Industry, he entered Academia holding teaching, research and administrative posts in various Institutions. Currently he is at the University of York and also holds a Fellowship in Computer Science at the University of Hull.

His association with Ancient Sites dates from his schooldays. As a member of the British Society of Dowsers, he undertakes research into the Geo- and Bio- Physics of Earth Energies. His special research topic is the mechanism of dowsing based on Quantum ideas in Consciousness Studies.
[My emphasis.]

The Mail's "technology writer" could have done 20 minutes worth of Googling, and easily discovered that Lyons is a loony.

Also, from Crackpot Jim's capsule bio at yet another woo site:
My research area is in the field of non-locality of Consciousness. The emerging new models describing an active Aether can begin to account for many phenomena such as Healing, Synchronicity, Psychometry etc, currently not even considered in mainstream Science. The open mindedness implicit in the SMN philosophy is what Science should truly be about.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/17/2007 06:52:59
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  06:25:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent, 'mooner! Well done! I was going to look around a bit on him, but had to tear my BS detector down.

Turns out that it over-revved and floated a valve, knocking a hole in the piston and shutting it down in an acrid cloud of blue smoke.

I've ordered a .010 oversize piston from Wisco and will give the cylinder a clean-up overbore to fit it as soon as it arrives. While I'm waiting, I'll rebuild the valve train and rework the ports. Iskidarian makes a pretty hot camshaft and I'll install one.

Then, let's see some bullshit sneak past it!

The first thing I thought was; why am I reading this here and not in a scientific publication? And then BSD blew.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  06:50:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Fil! I was pretty excited (Hell, I'm downright smug!) to find those links so quickly. I'm glad you're getting your BSD fixed and upgraded. It's helped a lot of us here in the past, and the woos seem to be on some kind of rampage lately.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  07:16:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jim Lyons was also, at least in 2002, involved in crop circle "research." Check out this third woo site that mentions him. (You may need to search that page for his name.) The site talks about "psychics," "Kirlian photography," "Angelic Beings," "research," etc. At least they made themselves some pretty crop circles to "research."
After consulting Jim Lyons who was a member of the group, dowsing and collecting grain for NIR analysis, I agreed so long as they tried to keep in the background.
These loonies concluded that crop circles increase the protein content of grain. (I wonder if there's enough extra protein to compensate for the grain they destroyed while creating the circles.)


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/17/2007 07:21:00
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  07:41:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Jim Lyons was also, at least in 2002, involved in crop circle "research." Check out this third woo site that mentions him. (You may need to search that page for his name.) The site talks about "psychics," "Kirlian photography," "Angelic Beings," "research," etc. At least they made themselves some pretty crop circles to "research."
After consulting Jim Lyons who was a member of the group, dowsing and collecting grain for NIR analysis, I agreed so long as they tried to keep in the background.
These loonies concluded that crop circles increase the protein content of grain. (I wonder if there's enough extra protein to compensate for the grain they destroyed while creating the circles.)


I sometimes wonder how many of these people really believe this crap and how many are just along for the ride 'cause it's "out of the mainstream" and therefore cool. I mean, is it possible that all of them are so easily convinced? And if so, why can we not convince them that it's all a pile of crap, even with irrefutable proofs?

We've been doing this for a long time here & elsewhere, and to my knowledge we've yet to change a single mind; at least, I haven't.

We Skeptics must be hardy breed because no matter how many times our heads bloodly hit that wall, we keep coming back to hit it again & again. In our way, we're at least as crazy as the woos.

Now the thing to do is to see when and for how much this thing will begin selling. And who buys it.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  08:13:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthyI sometimes wonder how many of these people really believe this crap and how many are just along for the ride 'cause it's "out of the mainstream" and therefore cool. I mean, is it possible that all of them are so easily convinced? And if so, why can we not convince them that it's all a pile of crap, even with irrefutable proofs?

We've been doing this for a long time here & elsewhere, and to my knowledge we've yet to change a single mind; at least, I haven't.

We Skeptics must be hardy breed because no matter how many times our heads bloodly hit that wall, we keep coming back to hit it again & again. In our way, we're at least as crazy as the woos.

Now the thing to do is to see when and for how much this thing will begin selling. And who buys it.




I think this, from JREF's "Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural" addresses the mindset you are discussing, Filthy:
credophilic An adjective originated by author L. Sprague de Camp to describe a mind that gets positive pleasure from belief and pain from doubt. . . . The credophile collects beliefs the way a jackdaw does nest ornaments: not for utility but for glitter. And, once having embraced a belief, it takes something more than mere disproof to make him let go.
It's as though de Camp had met my brother.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/17/2007 08:15:19
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  08:30:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The air-heat-exchanger/air-conditioner units that are sold in Swedish workshops for heating houses claims a 3-for-1 energy exchange. 1KW electricity in makes 3KW worth of heat. While that is no magic, but a known process, I'd rather get myself an air conditioner inverter since it's more effective, and I can get a cool apartment in the summer. I could be cutting my heating bills to a third, not a measly half as the Brittish "scientists" are claiming.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  08:31:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All too true. The credophile will ever thrive upon his imagination. And that's not necessarly a bad thing; we skeptics need them to keep our heads toughened up.

Say, I wonder if we scooped Randi on this one!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  11:13:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dr. Mabuse said:
1KW electricity in makes 3KW worth of heat. While that is no magic, but a known process...

Huh? How do you turn 1 KW into 3 KWs?
I must be missing something.

edited to add: 3 KW of heat can produce approximately 1.2 KW of electricty in an efficient heat cycle, so now I know I must be missing something.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
Edited by - furshur on 09/17/2007 11:18:57
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  11:52:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its called black magic, furshur, sheeh get with the program. We're over here worshipping Satan and getting all bloody with goat carcasses, while your out there wasting time with physics and logic. Well goat carcasses dont dispose of themselves now do they?!?

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  11:55:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would like to apologise for my previous statement, Ive been very stressed with all the work keeping the global science funding scam going with all this false GW data, not to mention the 5 hours a day I put into crushing Christian ideals and covering up controlled demolitions.

Again, sorry.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2007 :  13:39:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by furshur

Dr. Mabuse said:
1KW electricity in makes 3KW worth of heat. While that is no magic, but a known process...

Huh? How do you turn 1 KW into 3 KWs?
I must be missing something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump#Efficiency

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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