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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 17:04:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Here is one example:When the renowned Mount Sinai Hospital in New York refused to perform surgery on a 15-month-old boy, son of an Indian-American couple, with choked arteries due to the high risk factors involved, the parents were devastated.
Little did they know that their baby would be given a new lease of life back in India, courtesy the experts of Pediatric Heart Care Team at Wockhardt Hospital in Mumbai. |
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Glad to hear the market system worked. |
Brilliant dodge. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 19:41:08 [Permalink]
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| Jerome, I am with you on the fight against socialized medicine, but dude....., wrong examples for the arguemnet. Really bad examples..... |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:26:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Smoker refused surgery.
| A smoker is facing years of pain after an NHS hospital refused to set his broken ankle unless he gives up cigarettes. |
I just can not wait for Hillary care in a couple of years.
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I'm really just curious, do you not see how your quote is taken out of context? Or did you just do that to try to be funny? In either case, I didn't laugh.
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Explain how this is taken out of context.
Is the patient refused surgery until he gives up smoking or not?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:28:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Brilliant dodge.
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Not a dodge at all. The example you gave choose to purchase health care in the market.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 21:31:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Original_Intent
Jerome, I am with you on the fight against socialized medicine, but dude....., wrong examples for the arguemnet. Really bad examples.....
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You must read from the beginning. Many that WANT TO NOT believe that these things happen in social medicine will; without considering reality, decide that everything is just O.K.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 07:34:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Brilliant dodge.
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Not a dodge at all. The example you gave choose to purchase health care in the market. |
No, you said that in the US, they never turn people down because of risk if they're willing to pay for a procedure. I showed you an example of that happening. Their best solution was to go out of the country as part of the growing medical tourism trade. I'd say that this is hardly a shining example of the superiority of America's health care system. |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 07:51:47 [Permalink]
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Jerome, perhaps I am not understanding correctly, but I get the impression that youīre against socialised medicine AND against private medicine.
If so, What alternative(s) do you propose?
Cheers
perro de tokio
(edit to change "your" for "youīre") |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
| Edited by - perrodetokio on 09/18/2007 08:31:44 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 08:22:20 [Permalink]
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You know, some how, some way, we will attempt a system that assures everyone a reasonable level of healthcare.
And no matter what system that is, there will be those who will go kicking, screaming and moaning about the unfairness of it all.
I think a better dialog would be on how to best accomplish the inevitable.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 10:18:16 [Permalink]
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These types of headlines remind me of one I read once: "Arrested for robbing 1 peso (30 cents of dollar)". Then, when you read the whole newspaper article, you find out that the guy, armed with a 38 caliber, mugged some dude on the street who at the moment only had the clothes he was wearing and one peso he was going to buy cigarrettes with.
Yeah, sure. The thief only stole a peso, however, he had a firearm, threatened to shoot his victim with it if he didnīt hand him all his money. And should the victim have had more money or other valuables, it wouldnīt have been just a peso.
The point is/was that itīs an armed robbery despite the amount that you steal.
What does this have to do with the current post? Well, the guy wasnīt refused surgery JUST because he happened to be smoker whilst the robber wasnīt arrested JUST because he stole one peso.
In Argentina we call those types of headlines "Yellow Press" , in referrence to the cheap paper sensationalist newspapers and magazines used to print their issues on.
It seems that today itīs not just a few crappy newspapers that use that tactic to create controversy and sell.
(hey, this also would apply to the post "Tazer and Arrested by Kerry!". I will post it there as well).
Cheers
perro de tokio |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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Social Medicine=No Care for Smoker
