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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 00:46:39 [Permalink]
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Dude.....!
For christ's (insert any diety of choice) sake! It just really dawned on me! I'm seventy fucking nine years old! Give me a break!
No, not that kind of break! My god, have you no decency? |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2007 : 02:09:44 [Permalink]
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None at all!
My mind automatically follows some law of entropy, and tends to exist in the lowest state of decency it can attain at all times.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 10:25:17 [Permalink]
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Dude, you're my kind of Dude, Dude!
By Beelzebub!, it's great to find one of your own down here in the Ninth Circle! Let's buy a condo and set up housekeeping!
Hey, where are Marf and Humbert? Things get too hot for them? |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 11:17:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
either way, it aint the condoms. That was my main point.
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And that is where you're wrong. Not to belabor a point, but condoms are very effective as prevention for spreading HIV even when used for anal intercourse.
The idea that there is no safe sex among gays is just wrong. Ignorance leads to bigotry…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 11:22:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
What, in your book, is the qualitative difference between an "empty" insult and whatever you perceive as a proper or defensible insult? |
Whether or not it was deserved, of course.
| My personal dislike has more to do with the mindless and juvenile use of profanity and obscenity for it's own sake. |
And you aren't alone. I think many people feel that way, which is why SFN has decided to be slightly stricter in how it monitors language.
| But there is something to be said for everyone just applying the insult brake a little when things start going fast and furious - (you mother-butt-fucking puppy raper! for example) - and reaching into their vocabulary to find a kinder, gentler way of expressing their point! |
Yes, and such a comment would be clearly out of line. It is also in no way comparable to the relatively innocuous put down of "jerk."
| I, also, think that OFFC's comment was not very Christ-like. I intended my "commend" remark to be ironic. Obviously, you didn't get it. |
No, I don't feel that came across at all.
| Which raises a possible answer to the problem of how to insult when you just can't help yourself, and still stay within the Rules of Rome. Recently, I have been trying to be subtle enough that my barb is not perceived as an insult! That way, as the gekko would say, nobody looks foolish! |
I just find you unnecessarily verbose.
| Marf is indeed very honest and possesses high integrity. My opinion is that her calling OFFC a "bigoted jerk", was not necessary to convey her point. He may well be bigoted, "jerk" is both highly subjective and always perjorative. It might have been better to say "your statement looks bigoted to me". |
In this case, I think the use of the word jerk was extremely restrained considering the comment she was replying to. You might have found it unnecessary, but I doubt Marf feels it was gratuitous. Yes, it certainly is subjective and pejorative. So? Criticism is not yet banned here.
| Without the present perceived rules of behavior here, a childish response would have been to have to have called OFFC a hypocritical, ignorant, fundamentalist, bigoted, jerk-off who should get the hell home to play with himself and his bible, rather than coming out and annoying the big kids in the forum here by exposing himself! |
Again, yes, such a response would have been over the line. However, Marf's response never approached anything close to your example, so what's your point? Why are you making up things to criticize her for?
However, to do something like that now would not only be in flat defiance of the rules, it would be highly disruptive of the thought progression in the thread. Better to use a touch of irony complimenting a professed Christian for turning the other cheek when he speaks of "butt-fucking"
Comprende?
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So you think your method of dealing with OFFC was superior to Marf's. Big surprise, that. However, I didn't even read your comment as a criticism at all, so perhaps your method isn't as superior as you think it to be. Regardless, I don't recall anyone asking your advice on these matters. So until such time as you accept a moderating position here at SFN, how about you worry less about how others choose to make their point and just focus on keeping yourself in line. I think that would work out best for everyone here. Comprende?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/27/2007 11:23:53 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 14:50:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
marf made a statement about HIV which did not logically follow her data. |
Which statement was that?
| She claimed victimology of a specific subsection of Africans and portrayed it as the majority. |
Um, if by "specific subsection" you mean women, it might be because they are.
| [In Africa] women are increasingly becoming the biggest victims, with 13 infected women for every 10 infected men (up from 12 in 2002). That difference is even more pronounced among 15 to 24-year-olds. In Kenya and Mali, there are 45 women living with HIV from this age group for every 10 men living with the virus. |
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Victimology is Christian heterosexual women. She later clarified a more specific geographical location which removed the objection I had.
You continue:
| I'm refuting that religion and sexuality are material to the spread of infectious disease. |
You are? How? You said...
| Religion is not a factor in these except for any prohibitions against barrier type birth control methods between heterosexual couples. Claims of religious protection against the disease are likewise absurd. Germs and viruses are not religious. |
...clearly acknowledging that religious superstition and anti-condom programs are hugely material to the spread of infectious disease in Africa. How can you then jump to the conclusion that religion isn't material? You also said...
| And neither of these groups have the same infection risk as male homosexual sex. |
...so I don't see how you are saying sexuality isn't a factor. Perhaps you could explain?
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Religious superstition and anti-condom programs are aggrivating factors, but I was examining the whole of Africa which include tribal religions and Islam. The focus here had shifted for me from victimology to causal infection points in the second portion. I sometimes forget to signal when I change focus. It tends to distract from the point I am trying to make. I must try harder to be more precise in my language.
Sexuality is not a factor when determining risk from sexual acts. Since 2 males lack the equipment for vaginal penetration, they are limited to anal penetration. This sexual act is the primary risk factor in the transmission of the disease. It's splitting hairs, but not doing so ignores the identical risk factor present in heterosexual anal sex.
To my thinking, there are two primary risk factors in sexually transmitted blood bourne pathogens.
1) type of sexual act
2) failure of or failure to use a barrier method of birth control
The religious/societal bluster and noise has no direct bearing on these factors. They are aggrivating factors, but none that directly increase or decrease the percentage chance of HIV transmittal from any given type of sexual activity.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 10/27/2007 14:56:22 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 15:06:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
To my thinking, there are two primary risk factors in sexually transmitted blood bourne pathogens.
1) type of sexual act
2) failure of or failure to use a barrier method of birth control
The religious/societal bluster and noise has no direct bearing on these factors. They are aggrivating factors, but none that directly increase or decrease the percentage chance of HIV transmittal from any given type of sexual activity. |
They are more than aggravating factors. While it is true that they do not increase the infection rate of a given type of sexual activity, employing scare tactics to dissuade people from using condoms absolutely has a "direct bearing" on whether or not people use a barrier method of birth control, number 2 on your list of primary factors. Ditto on a local shaman informing a person that they can cure themselves of AIDS by raping a virgin (usually a child), which would fall under the first item on your list.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/27/2007 15:08:05 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 15:38:56 [Permalink]
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Hummer.....
| I don't recall anyone asking your advice on these matters. So until such time as you accept a moderating position here at SFN, how about you worry less about how others choose to make their point and just focus on keeping yourself in line. I think that would work out best for everyone here. Comprende? |
Sorry, I didn't realize you were one of the owners/founders/managers/moderators of SFN! Please write me a little corrective imperative in red, and I will instantly comply with your requests! Until then I will pretty damn well continue to post as I see fit within the stated rules of the Forum!! |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 15:48:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Sorry, I didn't realize you were one of the owners/founders/managers/moderators of SFN! Please write me a little corrective imperative in red, and I will instantly comply with your requests! Until then I will pretty damn well continue to post as I see fit within the stated rules of the Forum!! |
Oh, it wasn't a demand, just a bit of advice. I can't actually stop you from bloviating on matters of etiquette uninvited. Just don't expect to win any friends or influence people, as they say.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 18:00:03 [Permalink]
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Bummer.....
You said.....
| Oh, it wasn't a demand, just a bit of advice. I can't actually stop you from bloviating on matters of etiquette uninvited. Just don't expect to win any friends or influence people, as they say. |
You answered.....
| I didn't even read your comment as a criticism at all, so perhaps your method isn't as superior as you think it to be. Regardless, I don't recall anyone asking your advice on these matters. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 18:35:01 [Permalink]
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Right, so I can't tell you to stop offering unsolicited advice without offering unsolicited advice myself, and thus being a hypocrite? My, how devastating clever of you.  And one can't be intolerant of intolerance without being intolerant themselves. Such timeless paradoxes. I leave them to greater minds than myself to unravel. [/sarcasm]
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 23:04:03 [Permalink]
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Humbug.....
| Right, so I can't tell you to stop offering unsolicited advice without offering unsolicited advice myself, and thus being a hypocrite? My, how devastating clever of you. And one can't be intolerant of intolerance without being intolerant themselves |
[/sarcasm] Good work! You got that!
| Such timeless paradoxes. I leave them to greater minds than myself to unravel. [/sarcasm] |
[sarcasm] That shouldn't be difficult!
edited for clarity. |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 10/28/2007 10:21:43 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 10:05:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
To my thinking, there are two primary risk factors in sexually transmitted blood bourne pathogens.
1) type of sexual act
2) failure of or failure to use a barrier method of birth control
The religious/societal bluster and noise has no direct bearing on these factors. They are aggrivating factors, but none that directly increase or decrease the percentage chance of HIV transmittal from any given type of sexual activity. |
They are more than aggravating factors. While it is true that they do not increase the infection rate of a given type of sexual activity, employing scare tactics to dissuade people from using condoms absolutely has a "direct bearing" on whether or not people use a barrier method of birth control, number 2 on your list of primary factors. Ditto on a local shaman informing a person that they can cure themselves of AIDS by raping a virgin (usually a child), which would fall under the first item on your list.
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They are aggrivating factors. One only needs to look at the effect of these scare tactics on non-adherents to their religion.
That being none.
I was wondering when the tribal shaman story would raise it's ugly head. When it first came out, some of the fundies were blaming Wicca for the ignorance espoused.
The religion's influence dissuades an ignorant people to not employ the proper safety measures. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2007 : 07:41:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Dr. Mabuse wrote: | They may have been the ones getting the snowball rolling, but now it's been rolling a while and is picking up speed, fueled by this idiot bishop. |
Getting the HIV ball rolling probably had nothing to do with either homosexuality or sex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_origin | The most widely accepted theory is so called 'Hunter' Theory according to which transference from ape to human most likely occurred when a human was bitten by an ape or was cut while butchering one, and the human became infected. |
Quite the reverse – once the disease entered human populations and was an unknown disease, it disproportionately affected homosexual men because of the higher risk of transfer with anal sex.
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I wasn't thinking of the actual bridge between ape and human, but the spreading of HIV once it had been introduced into the human population.
A few HIV-infections here and there doesn't make a landslide, since infectious exchange of bodily fluids aren't probably as common with heterosexual people as with homosexual. The spread of the infection during 1980s was mostly confined to people performing anal sex or addicts using unclean needles. That's where HIV really got a firm hold in the population.
As for what Wikipedia says about the Hunter theory, I never thought otherwise. It's far more reasonable to ascribe to that theory than to assume that HIV jumped species by means of man-ape sex.
Thanks for posting the link though. It had some really interesting bits of reading, like the first suspected victim of AIDS died as early as 1959.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Bishop in Africa claims condoms contain HIV
