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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 11/07/2007 : 20:10:08
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Yep. Pharyngula talks about this and links to the news article.
| We're going to hear much more about this because the murderer claims to have carried out this act in the name of natural selection. Some of the murderer's files are available online (so far; that link may not function for long), and they portray a sick man with a distorted view of evolution that he used to justify his actions. |
So, you know, besides the obvious, immediate grief that's come of this, the YECs and ID wingnuts will make note of this.
Never mind that natural selection is done by animals trying to survive in their environment, and the ones who are able to get along better and reproduce more in the environment eventually out-compete others, etc. Running around with a gun knocking off those who you hate has nothing to do with how well an organism can survive and reproduce in the environment. This b.s. is done arbitrarily, using some "criteria" that some wackjob came up with, and has nothing to do with nature. At least in nature, animals are given a chance to survive and adapt. Not so uch when someone's gunning you down.
If anyone brings up eugenics, then maybe it could be pointed out that any "selection" that is done with eugenics was done within the human "kind" to improve the human "kind". Both IDists and YECers accept changes within a "kind" as "microevolution". Eugenics fits perfectly within their framework.
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/05/dr-west-meet-dr.html
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2007 : 22:13:14 [Permalink]
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You beat me by a couple of hours. Here's what I posted, then deleted when I saw your thread:
"Sturmgeist89" on You Tube. In the rambling text posted on the site, Auvinen said that he is "a cynical existentialist, anti-human humanist, anti-social social-Darwinist, realistic idealist and god-like atheist.
"I am prepared to fight and die for my cause," he wrote. "I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection." |
Those were the words on You Tube by the mad teen who murdered two girls and five boys, wounded another ten children, then shot himself, at a rural school in Finland.
Creationists will love this tragedy, and will exploit it shamelessly.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2007 : 22:17:49 [Permalink]
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The problem is, some crazy people listen to the Creationists, believe their lies, and make those fundy horror stories into their own action programs.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/07/2007 22:18:15 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 11/07/2007 : 23:05:20 [Permalink]
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The problem is that the human brain is a poorly evolved organ prone to malfunction.
The irony, that I'm sure the creationist crowd will overlook, is that if they are correct then their "designer" should have his product recalled immediately. It is a threat to the wellbeing of others!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 11/08/2007 : 03:56:06 [Permalink]
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This sad, little psychopath is gonna to be the new poster boy for the anti-evolution screwballs?
Shee-it, bring him on!!
Y'see, they've been using Hitler & his psuedo-philosophy as a straw man for decades and it hasn't amounted to a hill of beans. Human perversions & insanities have nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution, and if they couldn't get it done mit Der Fuhrer, they ain't gonna get it done with this new one, however exciting and even titillating he might be to them.
 about it.....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 06:09:01 [Permalink]
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| Don't worry we can provide thirty examples of people doing the same or worse in the name of God/Jesus. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 06:40:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Don't worry we can provide thirty examples of people doing the same or worse in the name of God/Jesus.
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Only 30? Big Papa, you are too modest. I'm certain that you can come up with a lot more than a mere thirty, and if you include the Catholic & Protastant Inquisitions, you can overwhelm even the most bone-headed of creationists with sacred lunacy. And if you drag the Aztecs & Maya into it.... You get the picture. Hey, seems like we read about folks, including -- especally! -- children, killed in homebrew exorcisims quite a bit.
The list is endless & if they want to play that game, well, their crazies outnumber ours by orders of magnitude -- incidently, Hitler, by his speaches and writings, was one of theirs. "Gott mit uns!" eh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 11/08/2007 : 08:18:45 [Permalink]
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Lame indeed but what else have they? I think that it is going to be very difficult to make creationist capital on this tradgy.
I rather liked Spanish Inquisitor's comment on it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 08:55:10 [Permalink]
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I wrote an answer to the blog, let's see if it gets approved by the blogger:
Hello!
"Yes, I may have stretched the topic of this news article just a bit, but no more so than some the blog posts I have seen regarding a single persons clear acts against Scripture used as an attack against all of Christianity. You know exactly what I am talking about SI, but I don't ever see you calling them on it."
So, if I get this right: You think it's perfectly ok to lower yourself to the level of your opponent, instead of maintaining the moral high ground?
If there really was a God with a son called the Christ, especially one who does answer prayer and performs miracles today,
one would think He would take some interest in what his followers do.
How Christianity's reputation is being tainted by the followers that do stray from the path by being hypocrits, liars, or sexual perverts (any or all of the above and then some) should be the concern of Good Christians as well as God Himself.
How did that verse go? "Take the beam out of your own eye before removing the splinter from your neightbour's eye"?
After 10 years in the church as a born-again Christian, I left because I grew tired of watching Christians preaching but not living what they preached.
Regards,
Dr. Mabuse |
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 09:24:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Don't worry we can provide thirty examples of people doing the same or worse in the name of God/Jesus.
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Yes and they have just as much a distorted view of Christianity as this person does of evolution. We could do this all day,site examples of religious and non religious people killing each other. Whats the point?
These people do not kill because of what christianity or evolution teaches. There is something much more deeply wrong with them. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 09:28:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
After 10 years in the church as a born-again Christian, I left because I grew tired of watching Christians preaching but not living what they preached. |
There is not a Christian out there that lives everthing they beleive. If they could we would not need Jesus. When you say you were a born again christian did you live out everything you believed? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 09:56:20 [Permalink]
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| That was my point Robb, I have no intention of doing what I said. It was only to show that the reaction to blame atheism/evolution was asinine. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 10:07:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
That was my point Robb, I have no intention of doing what I said. It was only to show that the reaction to blame atheism/evolution was asinine.
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Gotch ya  |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 13:09:33 [Permalink]
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For the record, I do not blame Hitler's Roman Catholic background for his politics. Roman Catholicism has its own history of support for the Holocaust that it must account for, however. The Pope of those times tacitly supported the Holocaust. Some priests and Catholics opposed it, sometimes heroically.
Social Darwinism has been rejected by almost everyone for many, many decades.
No scientist (or atheist) put this kid up to this atrocity. His insanity was a force in itself. The details of his personal delusions are irrelevant.
For this disturbed young man to have made noises that sound like Social Darwinism tells more about his confusion than it does even about Social Darwinism itself, and certainly doesn't connect in any way to the "Darwinism" of Charles Darwin or science. I suspect that the young Finn picked up his idea of "Darwinism" in church or from a raving street preacher. Maybe from a Chick Tract. I know of no modern movement that actually pushes the discredited Social Darwinism. But he probably would have cited some delusional "motivation" for his actions had there never been religion or Darwin.
As with "Social Darwinism," the misappropriation of terms is an old ploy: "Christian Science," "Scientology," "Creation Science," "Intelligent Design Science" are real phrases, using real words, but they have nothing at all, except adversarially, to do with science. They are oxymorons. Social Darwinism as a concept makes about as much sense as "Chemical Marxism."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/08/2007 13:20:18 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2007 : 14:59:45 [Permalink]
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Robb said:
| These people do not kill because of what christianity or evolution teaches. There is something much more deeply wrong with them. |
Exactly!
Won't stop the haters from claiming otherwise though.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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School shooting done by "naturalist"
