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 Ron Paul - Not your hero
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  12:18:31  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
....right below the surface of the libertarian mask that [Ron] Paul wears is an ultra nationalist, gun loving Christian conservative that opposes affirmative action, a woman's right to choose and same-sex marriage. Andů oh yeah: he hates immigrants.


Guess I didn't know all this about Dr. Paul.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  12:57:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He looks pretty close to being a Fascist.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  14:20:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He is still better, imo, than the rest of the republican candidates.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  18:06:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dude wrote:
He is still better, imo, than the rest of the republican candidates.
That may be, but that ain't saying much!

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  18:29:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hrmmm.... out of the democrats running, how many advocate an immediate withdrawal from Iraq and a US foriegn policy that resorts to military force only in self defense and defense of allies?

One! (I don't count Sen. Gravel, he is just there for the publicity) And he is getting lambasted because he says he saw a UFO. Even though he has said repeatedly that he doesn't mean to say he thinks he saw a UFO piloted by aliens, he still gets ridiculed.

So that puts Ron Paul a step above all the dems except Kucinich, in my book.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2007 :  19:30:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Hrmmm.... out of the democrats running, how many advocate an immediate withdrawal from Iraq and a US foriegn policy that resorts to military force only in self defense and defense of allies?

One! (I don't count Sen. Gravel, he is just there for the publicity) And he is getting lambasted because he says he saw a UFO. Even though he has said repeatedly that he doesn't mean to say he thinks he saw a UFO piloted by aliens, he still gets ridiculed.

So that puts Ron Paul a step above all the dems except Kucinich, in my book.


I don't know, Dude. I mean, I agree about the use of force. But I've yet to see a smart study by a non-partisan group about the effects of a complete US withdrawal in, say, 14 months. My gut instinct is to be in favor of such a move, but I'd like to know what experts (and not Bush hacks) think the reasonable after-effects of such a move are.
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2007 :  06:01:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Voting for Ron Paul on a single issue - ending the Iraq War - is probably not a good idea. I think that war is one of the greatest mistakes in American foreign policy history, it's consequences are and will continue to reverberate far and wide in many ways, and I absolutely despise GW Bush and his neo-con 'advisors' who started it. But I would never vote for Ron Paul to end it. There is almost nothing else I agree with him on. So while he will work hard to end that war, there's a heck of a lot more that the next president is going to have to deal with and I can't imagine Paul doing anything else coinciding with my interests as a liberal American.

-Chaloobi

Edited by - chaloobi on 11/19/2007 06:02:53
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2007 :  11:52:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dude wrote:
(I don't count Sen. Gravel, he is just there for the publicity)
That doesn't seem fair. Gravel's chance of winning isn't much different from Kucinich's or Paul's.

But anyway, if any of those three actually won, they are each so far distanced from the Washington political machine that they'd get almost nothing done and much of the federal government would pretty much grind to a hault.

Then again, maybe that'd be a good thing.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9664 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2007 :  13:07:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by marfknox

Dude wrote:
He is still better, imo, than the rest of the republican candidates.
That may be, but that ain't saying much!
Not much about Ron Paul, but much about the rest of them...

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2007 :  12:54:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

....right below the surface of the libertarian mask that [Ron] Paul wears is an ultra nationalist, gun loving Christian conservative that opposes affirmative action, a woman's right to choose and same-sex marriage. Andů oh yeah: he hates immigrants.


Guess I didn't know all this about Dr. Paul.

It's really not very complicated:
Meaning I am smarter than you and if you do not agree with my opinion then you are an idiot.

people who are or stand with workers, the poor, women, queer folks, people of color and immigrants will need to look far beyond this candidate.
Could Ron Paul get away with a statement like that?

Andů oh yeah: he hates immigrants
This is what is wroing with America and our politics. If a person wants regulations on immigrants he hates them, if a person thinks gun ownership is protected by the government they are dangerous idiots, if a person is against abortion they hate women, on and on and on we go and nothing gets done.

My two criteria for a canidate:

1. Anti abortion.
2. Is not devisive. Does not have an us against them mentality as most politicians in this country have.

Is there one?

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2007 :  13:30:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You mean you will only support a candidate who wants to make abortion against the law? In other words, your key interest is to limit other people's freedom; specifically to limit a freedom that, when exercised, doesn't affect you in any meaningful way... Why?

-Chaloobi

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2007 :  13:35:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb
My two criteria for a canidate:

1. Anti abortion.
2. Is not devisive. Does not have an us against them mentality as most politicians in this country have.


Seems to me that these two are mutually exclusive.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2007 :  13:48:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

You mean you will only support a candidate who wants to make abortion against the law? In other words, your key interest is to limit other people's freedom; specifically to limit a freedom that, when exercised, doesn't affect you in any meaningful way... Why?
I was hoping people would discuss my second criteria.

I will only support a candidate that is interested in stopping all abortions, making them illegal is only 10% of the solution. I am sure that abortion has been discussed to great length on this board and this is probably not the thread to do it. (but I will a little)It all hinges on whether one believes a fetus is a person or not. I do, so you can see why it affects me.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2007 :  13:50:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

Originally posted by Robb
My two criteria for a canidate:

1. Anti abortion.
2. Is not devisive. Does not have an us against them mentality as most politicians in this country have.


Seems to me that these two are mutually exclusive.
so is:

1. Pro abortion.
2. Is not devisive. Does not have an us against them mentality as most politicians in this country have.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2007 :  14:22:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Originally posted by pleco

Originally posted by Robb
My two criteria for a canidate:

1. Anti abortion.
2. Is not devisive. Does not have an us against them mentality as most politicians in this country have.


Seems to me that these two are mutually exclusive.
so is:

1. Pro abortion.
2. Is not devisive. Does not have an us against them mentality as most politicians in this country have.


I totally agree. My point was that your position is untenable.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 11/29/2007 14:23:45
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2007 :  14:49:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't see what all the shoutin's about. The way to cut down on abortions is to cut down on unwanted pregnancies, and the best way to do that is through education and safe & reliable methods of birth control. All very simple.

Contrary to neocon belief, nobody likes abortions.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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