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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 01/07/2008 : 06:34:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
One thing that has always annoyed me is the holier than thou nature of the wine connoisseur sect(most of em). I don't care how old or rare a bottle of wine is it is never going to be delicious, wine is and always will be a means to an end. This whole industry is nothing more than a way of kidding yourself into thinking that you are not just an alcoholic, you're more refined than a beer drinker or have some special gift that others lack. Really all you are doing is conning yourself into paying an extreme amount of money for something that you could get for a few bucks, drunk. Then theres the whole wine with food joke, where this wine or that wine will cleanse the palet or 'bring out the nutty flavor in your overpriced meal', give me a break.
Drink a shot and grab a coke, spare me the rest. [/rant]
Oh and fuck France.
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I enjoy wine quite a bit and there's a real difference between wine that tastes very good and that which tastes very bad. Similarly I find some beers taste much better than others. And good tequila tastes vastly better than bad. And note it's not just the expensive stuff that tastes good and the cheap bad (except with tequila - I've not enjoyed a good tasting tequila that wasn't way too pricey). I've had many very tasty wines that weren't very expensive. I wouldn't know if very expensive wine tastes better or not because I won't buy it. |
-Chaloobi
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 16:04:17 [Permalink]
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Marf.....
| those descriptive words aren't meant to intentionally fool anyone. They really are just descriptions |
They are not desctiptions of anything real. 'Those descriptive words' are a marketing technique meant to baffle them with bullshit. Because of the subjectivity of taste, people will frequently taste what they are told to taste. As P&T demonstrate, dummies will swallow the marketing pitch of a wine salesman (waitperson) hook, line, and cork!| Taste is truly subjective, so it makes no sense that everyone would prefer the more expensive more refined versions of every food and drink. When I go wine tasting with my parents and brother, the three of them really do usually prefer the more expensive, refined stuff. I myself can taste what they are talking about in the descriptions, but I always end up preferring the cheaper red table wine blends. They like to rip on me about it, and that is the bullshit and I call them on it. People like what they like, period. |
Yes, taste is subjective, but that is not to say that it is not educable. No one comes into the world with a taste for wine, or beer, or Scotch whiskey, or raw oysters! These tastes, along with a great many food and drink tastes are learned And the more varied cuisines you sample, the greater your appreciation for unusual tastes expands.
People like what they like, period, until they taste something new. Frequently, if they don't let food or drink prejudice get in their way, they will like the something new that they have tried. And then their appreciation of the incredibly wide world of gustatory delights is enlarged and educated! And their lives are enriched by a small, but cumulative, degree!
It is exactly like learning to appreciate an ever wider panoply of artistic expression - graphic arts, painting, all kinds of music, dance, sculpture, ....almost too many to mention. When you are young, Marf; keep an open mind, expose yourself to an ever wider range of possibilities for food (you're doing pretty good in the drink department) enjoyment, and don't let prejudice get in the way of expanding your sensory appreciation of some of the important wonders of the world. You will reap the reward of developing an educated, not snobbish, palate which will give you pleasure for the rest of your life!
It's like - listen to classical music for a while and see if you don't like some of it! Ditto for straight-ahead Jazz, fusion, country, blues, bluegrass, rock, rap and hip hop and the multitude of other variations of arranging a few hundred basic notes into incredible audible patterns. You are a Master (Mistress?) of this appreciation of visual Fine Art; do you enjoy ballet, theater, photography (Ansel Adams for example), architecture (Frank Lloyd Wright, Le Corbusier, I.M.Pei for example) as well? I suspect that you do enjoy some of all of the above, because your esthetic sense is educated and, well, sensitive!
So why not open wide your sensory reception capabilities to the enormous world of gustatory stimulation and consider the culinary arts exactly what they are in high expression, an an art form!| The thing that is bs to me in all this gourmet "the best" stuff isn't the descriptions of the stuff dubbed "better". The bs is people thinking that they should like it better than "lower quality" stuff or just pretending that they do |
Quality in food and drink is frequently related to price, but certainly not always. There are hamburger joints, Barbecue Pits, fast food palaces (White Castle), and many, many ethnic restaurants in the U.S. that offer some excellent items (also a lot of greasy crap) You won't find greasy crap in El Bulli in Catalona, or at the French Laundry in San Francisco, and you will find high, or to some, extremely high prices. Also, unquestionably, some of the finest food prepared on this planet.
However, go to Sonny's in Atlanta, and eat a sliced barbeque pork sandwich for (last time I was there) $3.00, and you'll think you died of gluttony and went to Food Heaven! Or have a Chile Relleno at Pasquales in Santa Fe (about $8.00), and you'll want to move to New Mexico just to enjoy the food!| it makes no sense that everyone would prefer the more expensive more refined versions of every food and drink. |
It makes sense for those who truly have enough taste experience to differentiate between the more refined versions of what ever food they are sampling. The taste and dining experience difference between a foie gras pöellé from Le Bernadin, and a duck liver paté from your corner deli, is astronomical, if you can afford it!
Which raises quite another question. Is enjoyment of the finer aspects of the world of cuisines available only to the wealthy? Yes and no. Few people can afford to eat frequently, or even once, at Alain Ducasse or Daniel in New York City or Le Bec-fin in your town of Philadelphia. (Incredible food! One of the top twenty in the United States, and fifth best of any restaurant I have visited in the US)
Those who can experience food preparations of this degree of excellence are fortunate indeed! However, extremely high quality food of variety and expert preparation at reasonable prices, is available to anyone in any fairly populous area who has a good restaurant guide and a sense of adventure!
Get a Zagat for your city or area, or for any area you travel to and intend to spend a few days. Zagat consolidates the ratings of hundreds (sometimes thousands) of "foodies" of a given area and gives ratings according to their polling. All cuisines, all price ranges, all decors and "eating atmospheres" (important to some) - it's all there in a little book you can carry in pocket and find anything your stomach desires! Available on line, too.
Damn, I REALLY] love to talk about food!!!
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 16:49:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'll respectfully disagree, but only just a little. In grad school, I worked part time at a liquor store. In addition to making some extra cash to live on, this had the added benefit of supporting my alcohol habit at a discount. Anyhow, working there, I had the chance to try lots of wines. Probably thousands. The best part of the job was when the wine rep came in to peddle whatever the distributor was trying to move that week. She or he would come in with 5 or 6 different bottles to sample. Once you'd been at the store for awhile, the boss would have you sit in on the tasting, too.
I learned a great deal about wine, and in many (but not most!) cases, there is a difference between a $10 bottle and a $20 bottle, and between a $20 bottle and a $50 bottle. Somewhere along the way, that distinction grows less, and I would never say that a $100 was twice the value of a $50 bottle. At least, not the once I sampled.
Having said that, I always thought wine was worth it since I wasn't paying retail. A bottle at retail is usually priced at about 50% over wholesale (so the store bought it at $6.66 and sells it for $9.99). I usually payed 10% over cost. So that $20 bottle was "worth it" because I paid no where close to $20. Now that I'm out of the wine store business, I find that when I buy wine, it's more like the $8 or $9 bottles, and not $20 bottle, that I'm getting.
People (well, some of them) are snooty about their liquor, too. And while I would say that top shelf bourbon is better than the Evan Williams that I buy, I think I'll keep my cheap stuff and mix it with some Coke or Sprite and be plenty happy about it.
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I happen to be a fan of semi-sweet white wines. They will add a flavor to the meal and are great for cooking with.
My personal fave is Riesling. And a domestic to boot. From Michigan.
$8-$9 per bottle straight from the winery.
And I have friends who are Asatru. They make a damn fine Mead (honey wine). The homemade stuff kicks the hell out of the store stuff. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2008 : 15:41:52 [Permalink]
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Raising the price of wine makes it taste better, a study finds:Apparently, raising the price really does make the wine taste better.
At least that seems to be the result of a taste test. The part of the brain that reacts to a pleasant experience responded more strongly to pricey wines than cheap ones — even when tasters were given the same vintage in disguise. |
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/14/2008 15:42:55 |
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Everything is overrated, what bugs you?
