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Doomar
SFN Regular

USA
714 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2009 :  17:20:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Doomar's Homepage Send Doomar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

I am not aware of a single atheist that hates Religious people based on just being religious. Surely, they exist, but I have never met one, or read the writings of one, or heard about one outside of the writings of Doomar.

I have experienced hatred from atheists simply because I presented to them a point of view that included God. Sure, as long as the Christian stays out of government or any affair that might touch society, the atheist could care less, but when a Christian speaks out and expresses his opinion or attempts to influence society, watch out. So by your own admission, Simon, as long as they are just "religious" you're fine, but when they touch any issue with which you disagree or note a point of immorality based on the Bible, your countenance changes and they become liars and hypocrites?

Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

www.pastorsb.com.htm
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Doomar
SFN Regular

USA
714 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2009 :  17:42:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Doomar's Homepage Send Doomar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley What I condemn is the wrong thinking that god beliefs encourage and the need the faithful have to infect others.
And I condemn the wrong thinking that God has no right to impose rules on His creation. Look around you and notice the rules and regulations of society that keep evil from running rampant. God's rules are behind those rules and explain the reason. Do you enjoy peace, but spit in the face of those who cause you to live in it? You benefit from those who keep the rules, pay their debts, keep their word to you, yet you despise the One who gave the rules and fail to acknowledge He even exists?

What you call "infecting" is spreading the good news about the Lord Jesus and his desire to save the sinful, lost soul. Those "infected" souls, that truly follow Jesus treat you well, they live honest lives and train their children to do right. Would to God that you and everyone received this infection that seems to make one a better person and citizen. But let's not make the mistake that all religion or Christianity is equal, as there were false Christians in Jesus day, too.


[i]Originally posted by Doomar

God justifies even the sinful man who believes in Him. His standard for fallen man is not perfect behavior, but faith. "being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1
It is sad to see you harden your heart. Humility is far more virtuous and necessary than you think. Next step: abasement.
More bible verses, more nonsense. Doomar you have yet to establish your God as anything outside of your imagination. You ignore all the salient points and continue with your witnessing.

The salient points are in the witnessing. I cannot establish God. He has already established Himself very well. But an excellent and pertinent line was spoken in the Indiana Jones movie about the Holy Grail: "Only the humble shall pass." Only the humble are able to see the mighty workings of God, while the proud wander in blindness all around His glory.


Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

www.pastorsb.com.htm
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2009 :  19:29:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doomar

In studying the meaning of the Hebrew word translated as "evil," it can mean adversity, affliction, calamity. It is a misrepresentation of God to say that he makes "evil" in the sense of doing sinful acts or immoral deeds. James makes it clear that God does not do evil or temp anyone to do evil. It is also written that God is good, just, righteous, and God is love...all of which dispel the notion that God does wrong. However, you join the hyper-calvinists in claiming such a thing, which I condemn as heresy.
I never said that God "does wrong," I said that He created "wrong" (and "right" and "good" and "bad"). Once again, Doomar, you have decided to ignore the word "create" in favor of the words "do" and "temp" in order to escape the necessary condition that God created evil (along with everything else, see Genesis 1:1 and on).

And in so doing, Doomar, you join the hyper-ridiculous religious nutbags who argue against transparent strawmen in vain attempts to defend God, and then pass judgement upon those to whom you attribute the ludicrous strawmen, thus creating (in anyone's eyes) yet another lie for Jesus.

Straight up, Doomar: it is morally acceptable to lie in order to protect your vision of God?

Why does your God even need your protection and your strict judgement of others? Isn't He more powerful than you? Can't He take care of Himself?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2009 :  23:35:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doomar

Originally posted by Simon

I have experienced hatred from atheists simply because I presented to them a point of view that included God. Sure, as long as the Christian stays out of government or any affair that might touch society, the atheist could care less, but when a Christian speaks out and expresses his opinion or attempts to influence society, watch out. So by your own admission, Simon, as long as they are just "religious" you're fine, but when they touch any issue with which you disagree or note a point of immorality based on the Bible, your countenance changes and they become liars and hypocrites?




When somebody brings out a book and arbitrarily interprets it to means he is better than anybody else, yes, that annoy me.
When somebody brings out a book and arbitrarily interprets to justify bigotry and ignorance, yeah, that pisses me off.

And Comfort and Hovind are liar and hypocrite and, as I said, it has nothing to do with Religion.
They are liars because they repeat things that have been explained multiple time to them to be untrue.
They are hypocrite because they go out of their way to find (or pretend to find) faults in others while secretly committing much worse...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9687 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2009 :  03:18:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doomar
I have experienced hatred from atheists simply because I presented to them a point of view that included God.
Are you sure that this is the one and only reason for them hating you?
I honestly don't believe you, but think there might be more to it than this.


Sure, as long as the Christian stays out of government or any affair that might touch society, the atheist could care less,
As it should be. Live and let live.


...but when a Christian speaks out and expresses his opinion or attempts to influence society, watch out.
When you start influencing society by dictating what is "moral" and "right" using you bigoted religion as a guide, then you're forcing your religion on others. And that is an act Atheists strongly object to.

Would you want to have "There is no God" on the dollar bill replacing "In god we trust"?
Or are you willing to compromise, and just remove "In god we trust"?


So by your own admission, Simon, as long as they are just "religious" you're fine, but when they touch any issue with which you disagree or note a point of immorality based on the Bible, your countenance changes and they become liars and hypocrites?
We demand that Christians be judged by the same standards they judge non-Xians. And my personal experience is that Christians are hypocrites in this regard.
This is especially true when it comes to dictating policies when it affects more people than just themselves in their church but in society at large.

Which brings us back to the initial quote:
"I have experienced hatred from atheists simply because I presented to them a point of view that included God."

Are you sure you haven't said anything else to those atheists that might have triggered their ire? People don't like being told they are going to burn in hell. Perhaps they reacted badly to something else you said.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2009 :  10:08:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doomar

Originally posted by moakley What I condemn is the wrong thinking that god beliefs encourage and the need the faithful have to infect others.

And I condemn the wrong thinking that God has no right to impose rules on His creation. Look around you and notice the rules and regulations of society that keep evil from running rampant. God's rules are behind those rules and explain the reason. Do you enjoy peace, but spit in the face of those who cause you to live in it? You benefit from those who keep the rules, pay their debts, keep their word to you, yet you despise the One who gave the rules and fail to acknowledge He even exists?
You have already tried to make this argument which has been refuted. Repetition, no matter how sincere, has little effect on the merits of an argument.

Originally posted by Doomar

What you call "infecting" is spreading the good news about the Lord Jesus and his desire to save the sinful, lost soul. ...
Your religion creates the disease "sin" and then turns around and tries to sell me the cure and somehow this is supposed to be good news that I should be grateful for.

Originally posted by Doomar

Originally posted by moakley More bible verses, more nonsense. Doomar you have yet to establish your God as anything outside of your imagination. You ignore all the salient points and continue with your witnessing.

The salient points are in the witnessing.
Nicely done. You have completely missed my point. Or did you ignore it? Besides witnessing only tells us about your religious convictions.

Originally posted by Doomar

I cannot establish God. He has already established Himself very well.
If that were true then there would be no need for witnessing. No need for apologetics. No need for you, or your God, to threaten others with eternal damnation.

Originally posted by Doomar

But an excellent and pertinent line was spoken in the Indiana Jones movie about the Holy Grail: "Only the humble shall pass." Only the humble are able to see the mighty workings of God, while the proud wander in blindness all around His glory.
Dialogue from a fictitious movie seems appropriate.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2009 :  12:48:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doomar

But an excellent and pertinent line was spoken in the Indiana Jones movie about the Holy Grail: "Only the humble shall pass." Only the humble are able to see the mighty workings of God, while the proud wander in blindness all around His glory.
When I go to the seashore, visit the redwoods, or look up at a vivid, star-filled night sky, I feel humble to witness the incredible power and glory of nature.

I certainly don't need a foolish myth to help me see and feel all this. So why should I trivialize this mighty natural spectacle by attributing it to the work of a Bronze Age sky-god?

That would be true blasphemy.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/22/2009 12:50:01
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2009 :  13:03:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley

Originally posted by Doomar
What you call "infecting" is spreading the good news about the Lord Jesus and his desire to save the sinful, lost soul. ...
Your religion creates the disease "sin" and then turns around and tries to sell me the cure and somehow this is supposed to be good news that I should be grateful for.



This "spreading the good news", and then to "save the sinful" sounds like 'Munchhausen by Proxy' is mixed in there a tad bit, doesn't it.

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2009 :  13:07:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[i]Originally posted by HalfMoonerWhen I go to the seashore, visit the redwoods, or look up at a vivid, star-filled night sky, I feel humble to witness the incredible power and glory of nature.

I certainly don't need a foolish myth to help me see and feel all this. So why should I trivialize this mighty natural spectacle by attributing it to the work of a Bronze Age sky-god?

That would be true blasphemy.




Amen!

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2009 :  13:39:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My Dawg, is this train wreck still going on? What are you guys, gluttons for punishment? Yeesh!

Ok, before we can even consider going to Hell, we must first define "Hell" and give it an actual, geographic location -- metaphysical speculations won't cut it because they cannot be examined by observation.



Popularly, that location in in the hollow center of the Earth but that isn't possible. The Reptiloids would never allow such a devaluation of their property values. From my reading, Hell is actually thought to be Gehenna, a smoldering, village midden. All villages of Biblical times had middens and all villages today do as well. The soul in question was simply shit-canned. That's not very scary, is it? Gotta have something terrifying to keep the faithful in church and fill them collection plates.

But before we can go there, we must first define "Soul."


Weighing of the souls.


Question: What exactly is the soul and why should we care if we're just gonna be shit-canned in Gehenna anyway?

My idea of the soul is simply the ability to appreciate the beauty and indeed, sadness of the natural world. It is a sort of a spiritual thing that involves neither Heaven nor Hell, nor some ill-tempered, incompetent tyrant in either of those places. When I die, it will simply fade away with me. Others have other thoughts on the matter, few of them in agreement with each other beyond unfalsifiable, metaphysical crap.

So, we cannot define & locate Hell nor even document it's very existence beyond Bronze Age speculation, nor do we know what a Soul is beyond that same set of less-than-imaginative, bad-trip pipe-dreams. Where does that leave us, then? Why, right, smack in the middle of where we started -- nowhere.

C'mon fellas, give it a rest...




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 02/22/2009 13:45:15
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Doomar
SFN Regular

USA
714 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2011 :  20:05:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Doomar's Homepage Send Doomar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In spite of all the discussion and rejection of hell (as taught by the Lord Jesus), you are still going there. "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." John 3:18-20 (KJV)
"There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust him to save them. But those who don’t trust him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God. 19 Their sentence is based on this fact: that the Light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 They hated the heavenly Light because they wanted to sin in the darkness. They stayed away from that Light for fear their sins would be exposed and they would be punished. 21 But those doing right come gladly to the Light to let everyone see that they are doing what God wants them to."
John 3:18-21 (TLB)

Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

www.pastorsb.com.htm
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13476 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2011 :  20:29:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Doomar

In spite of all the discussion and rejection of hell (as taught by the Lord Jesus), you are still going there. "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." John 3:18-20 (KJV)
"There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust him to save them. But those who don’t trust him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God. 19 Their sentence is based on this fact: that the Light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 They hated the heavenly Light because they wanted to sin in the darkness. They stayed away from that Light for fear their sins would be exposed and they would be punished. 21 But those doing right come gladly to the Light to let everyone see that they are doing what God wants them to."
John 3:18-21 (TLB)

Hey Doomar. Did you just come by to quote scripture? This is a discussion board. Remember?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2011 :  00:15:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like a Nehru Jacket, it's comeback. I wish there was a hell, it would be worth going there just to get away from these freaking nuts. From what I read, he's a whole bowlful. Definitely another child abuse victim. At least our other theists get to see how stupid they sound for a change. Obviously they have no clue or they wouldn't do it also.SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1486 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2011 :  15:54:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't believe what rabbi Jesus said, especially when so many words have been stuffed into his mouth by politicians in the heavily edited, redacted and revised Bible.

Hell was invented as a recruitment tool to scare illiberal people.
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