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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2008 : 16:02:34
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As the resident, regular, nutjob who has a deep and abiding convicton in the existence of green dwarfs piloting Flying Saucers, Telepathy and generally all things woowoowoowoo; I would like to introduce the final, incontrovertible, visual] video(if you can see it, it must be true)evidence for The Perpetual Motion Machine!
 Thane, Thane, come back!
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From Neatorama:
Perpetual Motion Machine Stumps MIT Professor Inventor Thane Heins was a college dropout who worked on his invention so obsessively that his wife kicked him out and he lost custody of his children. If that's not bad enough, he had difficulty getting scientists to take his idea seriously. His invention is a perpetual motion machine, which is viewed by the scientific community as squarely belonging in the realm of the batty.
Until, that is, he managed to convince Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Markus Zahn (previously on Neatorama: Zahn's work with ferrofluid), an expert in electromagnetic and electronic systems, to take a quick look:
Heins has modified his test so the effects observed are difficult to deny. He holds a permanent magnet a few centimetres away from the driveshaft of an electric motor, and the magnetic field it creates causes the motor to accelerate. It went well.
Contacted by phone a few hours after the test, Zahn is genuinely stumped – and surprised. He said the magnet shouldn't cause acceleration. "It's an unusual phenomena I wouldn't have predicted in advance. But I saw it. It's real. Now I'm just trying to figure it out."
There's no talk of perpetual motion. No whisper of broken scientific laws or free energy. Zahn would never go there – at least not yet. But he does see the potential for making electric motors more efficient, and this itself is no small feat.
"To my mind this is unexpected and new, and it's worth exploring all the possible advantages once you're convinced it's a real effect," he added. "There are an infinite number of induction machines in people's homes and everywhere around the world. If you could make them more efficient, cumulatively, it could make a big difference."
Link | Video clips of Thane's invention, the Perepiteia Generator, in action - via Boing Boing and reddit
Now, before you all scream "hoax!" and pillory the MIT professor for falling for the trick (and me for posting it), please consider that many of today's scientific dogmas were once crazy ideas that were initially dismissed out of hand by the majority of scientists at the time.
For example: Einstein's work on the quantization of light, theory of special relativity, and equivalence of matter and energy; Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, and (this one I'm more familiar with) Stanley Prusiner's work on prions. |
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Come on, you myth-busters! This one has got to be true......doesn't it?
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 21:39:33 [Permalink]
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There may be something interesting about it, but the whole device needs to be disected and investigated for fraud. If it holds up, then the thing needs to be independently replicated, and studied for an explanation.
Its not going to turn out being perpetual motion though. More likely some novel effect of magnetic fields.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 12:59:29 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
I think the most interesting thing about all of Thane's efforts is the acceleration of the induction motor when an external neodymium magnet is simply brought close to the rotating armature! This is not "perpetual motion" but is in itself a very important technical achievement, if not a fake!
Apparently, additional EMF is induced without additional energy input, which is in essence a violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics! I don't really know what is going on here, but I suspect a hidden wire inputting energy to the motor!
I sent the whole kibosh to Randi and I expect to see it in next week's SWIFT. Stay tuned! If theres no fakery, Thane has won a million dollars! |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 18:01:46 [Permalink]
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| Stay tuned! If theres no fakery, Thane has won a million dollars! |
Even if there is no fakery the device has not been demonstrated to violate the 2nd law, and its absurd to even make that speculation at this point. FFS, maybe the magnetic field is simply reducing friction inside the motor.
IF it isn't a fake, it needs to be independently replicated and examined.
Also, Randi's challenge (its no longer running anyway) was for verifiable evidence of the paranormal, not novel/undiscovered physical properties (which is the most one could say of this IF it isn't faked).
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 03:05:30 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
| Also, Randi's challenge (its no longer running anyway) was for verifiable evidence of the paranormal, not novel/undiscovered physical properties (which is the most one could say of this IF it isn't faked). |
1. Randi's Challenge runs until 2010. From SWIFT Feb 8:| With the announcement of the Million Dollar Challenge's close in 2010 has come a renewed interest in Challenge protocols, correspondence, and claimants. With that in mind, the JREF opens the Challenge doors to all interested parties with this blog, which will be updated often, and feature uncut, unedited e-mails that have been sent to Challenge@randi.org. |
2. Perpetual Motion Machines, if they demonstrate >Unity, do qualify for the $1M prize. Laboratory testing must demonstrate more energy output than input, or any violation of the Laws of Thermodynamics. This is defined as "supernatural" in the simplest sense of the word. Ask Randi.
Even if there is no fakery the device has not been demonstrated to violate the 2nd law, and its absurd to even make that speculation at this point. FFS, maybe the magnetic field is simply reducing friction inside the motor.
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3. Not absurd. If the motor delivers significantly more energy, (again, >Unity) disallowing friction differentials, after application of the external magnet, the system would be in violation of the Principle of Minimum Energy (or Work Principle), a corollary of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
At least that's what they taught me in Engine School sixty years ago!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2008 : 05:54:19 [Permalink]
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I think that we can safely assume that Thane's Thingamabobble is not going to rape & pillage any of the Laws of Physics, but wouldn't it be marvelous if it did?!  Rather, at best, what we might have here is simply a more efficent, electric motor/generator; also marvelous but in a much less marvelous way.
Or the whole thing might be yet another complicated attempt to generate some major investment cash before retiring to a country with no extradition treaty.
We can only await the results of whatever tests & examinations this thing is put through.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 08:21:51 [Permalink]
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bng said:
| 1. Randi's Challenge runs until 2010. From SWIFT Feb 8: |
Ok, I had thought it was shutting down last month. Thats what I get for not reading his website more frequently.... heh. I'd rather he keep the challenge going myself, it has been a source of great entertainment (watching the nutjubs make fools of themselves) for a good while. I'll definitely miss it.
| Apparently, additional EMF is induced without additional energy input, |
My point was, and is still, that is it far to soon to be convinced of the authenticity of this device. As Dave_W noted in the other thread on this topic, the guy is probably just ignorant.
It is, literally, absurd to claim that his device "apparently" violates any of the laws of thermodynamics until it has been independently replicated and shown to do so.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Finally...Visual Proof of Perpetual Motion !
