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 The secrets of men: unbalanced homophobia
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  06:41:46  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I was asked recently why exactly do most men find homosexuality in women so alluring and why they find homosexuality in men so unpleasant...I didnt have a good answer at the time, but now I do.

So as I see it we have three basic sets of guys

A) Homosexuals and bisexuals who clearly have no issues with men loving men and usually vise-versa.

B) Pure homophobes, who for religious or personal reasons abhorr the idea of same-sex relations and are not turned on by them in any way.

C) The guys who are turned on by females who like females, are turned off by guys who like guys yet have no real issues with male on male love, from my experience most guys including myself fall into this category.

--
Heres how I see it, guys in group C are obsessed, for lack of a better word, with the ladies, their bodies and sexuality. This is a concept we understand in each other and it binds us together like brothers. We also find men in general to be sexually disgusting and unpleasant. These fellas do not empathise with women who are attracted to men, because we will never understand how anything could be attracted to men. When a woman comes along who also likes women, this we understand and it intrigues us, completly. Since we consider men to be sexually disgusting, two men together becomes sexually disgusting^2. While two women together becomes the pleasant opposite, compounded with a rare understanding of the mysterious women in general. It should be noted that this does not apply to butch lesbians, who are usually trying to appear masculine. These women are even more confusing that the rest of them.

Thats the best reason I could come up with.



[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  06:49:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, those of us in Group C would wish, if they were re-incarnated into women, to be lesbians. At least that's my opinion.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  06:52:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also you ladies may be anaware that there is an unwritten homophobia code for men, it is summed up by the Urinal Laws.

1)If two men are standing at a urinal its best just not to say anything to eachother, particularly if they are strangers.

2) If you do need to say something, it must be about sports or some commonly known woman, otherwise awkwardness may result. Discussion of other topics is only excusable if one party is completely intoxicated.

3) At no time should the two parties look or glance at eachother, particularly if they are not talking to eachother. Any downward motions of the eyeballs must be firmly fixed on ones own business, lest those eyes be blackened.

Note: these rules dont apply in gay bars as far as I know.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  06:54:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

Also, those of us in Group C would wish, if they were re-incarnated into women, to be lesbians. At least that's my opinion.


Yes, thank-you Pleco. We group C'ers are closet Bhuddists.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  07:15:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Old joke #1: I am a lesbian trapped inside a man's body.

Old joke #2: I'd like to be reincarnated as a whale... and I can't bring myself to type the punchline.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  07:16:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, now explain why the same homophobia categories and rules don't apply to women. This is something which has confounded me personally because, while I do find beautiful women visually appealing, watching a film which eventually involved two naked women doing stuff to each other makes me a bit nauseous and very turned off. And films or imagery involving to gay men that I find sexually attractive is a big turn on. However, in talking to my girlfriends, these reactions are not the norm. Most other women I know tend to be just as turned off by images of men going at it as women. Are women just being culturally conditioned to be prudish? Or are average, straight women's sexual preferences more complex and diverse than average, straight men's?

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  07:28:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think perhaps, many women also find men sexually disgusting on some level or perhaps seeing two men together just ruins whatever alluring qualities you would have seen in those men.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  07:56:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by marfknox

Or are average, straight women's sexual preferences more complex and diverse than average, straight men's?
Some silly stereotyping may have the answer.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  08:11:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or are average, straight women's sexual preferences more complex and diverse than average, straight men's?


I think this is an accurate statement.

As a man I can state that in general when it comes to sexuality men are little more than pond scum.

I also think that there is a lot of truth to the idea that the most vehemently homophobic men are actually at some level turned on by homosexuality. And even if it is not true it is great fun to share this idea to a group of men.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  08:20:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by furshur

Or are average, straight women's sexual preferences more complex and diverse than average, straight men's?


I think this is an accurate statement.

As a man I can state that in general when it comes to sexuality men are little more than pond scum.

I also think that there is a lot of truth to the idea that the most vehemently homophobic men are actually at some level turned on by homosexuality. And even if it is not true it is great fun to share this idea to a group of men.




Yeah and then you tell them about those studies which showed the most dominant male chimps are more likely to have homosexual relations*, just to scare them in to thinking they might be gay. As for the ladies, who knows, Marf appears to be a female version of group C, which to my limited knowledge is much smaller among women, and studies show that group A is a bit bigger among women, though its hard to say if this is only a result of our culture being more accepting of Group A females vs. males.

Compounding the problem is that all women are crazy in their own special way, where as men are more predictable in their insanity.

*Study does not exist to my knowledge

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 03/04/2008 08:27:11
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  09:21:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

2) If you do need to say something, it must be about sports or some commonly known woman, otherwise awkwardness may result. Discussion of other topics is only excusable if one party is completely intoxicated.
Also, sports that should not be mentioned include wrestling and gladitorial games.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  09:30:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh boy. I have a lot to say on this subject, but haven't the time right now.

Just a thing though. In our culture, from advertising to movies to fashion to you name it, woman are sold to us all, male and female, as objects of desire for the most part. They are smiling at us either half naked or, in the case of fashion magazines, as the picture of perfection and often posed as alluring and seductive, even in those magazines targeted at woman. At some level, how could we not notice?

And that must have some relationship to how we, who are males, view sexuality. And woman too. Simply put, we are told to be attracted to woman.

And I think that is why lesbianism is not as taboo as male homosexuality is, especially in a patriarchal society.

Men and woman are sold the same thing, so I suspect that there are more bi-curious woman then there are men. (Or, at least, more woman are willing to admit it.) I would argue that a females attraction to woman is not as repressed as male attraction to men is.

Sure, some of us are exclusively heterosexual. Or we think so anyway, which has the effect of making it so. But as Kinsey pointed out in his studies, the lines are not so easily drawn.

Love the link Dave.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  11:57:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Big Papa.....

A) Homosexuals and bisexuals who clearly have no issues with men loving men and usually vise-versa.

B) Pure homophobes, who for religious or personal reasons abhorr the idea of same-sex relations and are not turned on by them in any way.

C) The guys who are turned on by females who like females, are turned off by guys who like guys yet have no real issues with male on male love, from my experience most guys including myself fall into this category.


D) Guys who like women, think gay men are usually fun and interesting people but don't share their sexual preferences, have exactly the same feelings about lesbians (like them but no turn on) and think the whole sexual preference thing is slowly becoming strictly media fodder and does not have any more real significance to anything legitimate than does race or ethnicity or gender. That's me, and quite a few other men half my age I know!
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  13:06:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry D isreserved for "None of the above" If you are not A-C you dont exist.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  13:13:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BPS wrote:
I think perhaps, many women also find men sexually disgusting on some level or perhaps seeing two men together just ruins whatever alluring qualities you would have seen in those men.
Why would straight women find men sexually disgusting? Do you think you might be projecting here? I mean, certainly all women are going to find some men sexually disgusting, just as all men are going to find some women sexually disgusting. But for a straight woman to find men sexually disgusting on some level sounds like at least bordering on psychological damage or disfunction. (Oh wait... that doesn't exist. ;-)

Actually, I wonder if the repulsion some straight women have to seeing gay men doing it is because women tend to put themselves in sexual fantasies. In other words, if the average woman is to enjoy sexually stimulating imagery or literature, there must be a character that she can pretend to be. Or to put it yet another way, maybe men in general tend more toward voyerism than women?

BTW, I ain't saying whether these male/female tendencies are nature or nuture, 'cause I really have no idea.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 03/04/2008 13:14:51
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2008 :  13:32:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What is not to be turned off by two men, for the lack of a better term, fudge packing each other? It just ain't natural. Obviously, this was never designed to fit into that. And most honest people acknowledge that fact.

Ramming any object, let alone another man's equipment, up the anal of another man, women, or child, I believe, is found disgusting by most. Sure you'll have a % that get into man/women anal sex, but I believe that % to be low among the hetro's.


As far as lesbian sex vs. male anal sex there are several factors that must be accounted for. One being superficiality. This may, or may not, be a secret to all you ladies, but the vast majority of red blooded hetro males can be turned on by a split second flash of the imagination in which a hot women with very nice cleavage is involved. Most men can overlook many many factors if the women is hot and wearing a thong. In fact many men can be turned on by a women taking a dump in the outhouse if the women is blond, stacked, and hot. So two hot women making out and feeling each other up is going to turn most men on because:

A: Hot women can turn most men on while doing almost anything.

B. Most hot women who make out with other hot women are bisexual so if the guy is seeing hot women who are aroused and he thinks he has at least a 0.01% or greater chance of getting with either hot women then he is hooked line and sinker.

Now the key word here is hot. Two ugly women, or fat women, or fat ugly women making out usually do nothing for most normal guys. When they are turned on it is mostly by the fact that the women are hot and not by the fact that they are kissing another women. Again, most guys will be turned on by hot women doing anything, rather then fat and/or ugly women kissing.

On the other hand you can take George Clooney and Brad Pitt and show them as butt buddies and most women will be totally turned off by this. I think it's the anal penetration that grosses most out. Come on people, that is used for taking a crap, not ramming your rod!

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Edited by - Bill scott on 03/04/2008 13:36:03
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