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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2008 :  07:58:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If I find I got a buck extra change back at the cash register, I'll go back inside and return it.

-Chaloobi

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Coat Of Arms
Skeptic Friend

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  06:36:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Coat Of Arms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since the original poll deals with being honest. Let's take it one step further. Suppose you are at a Casino playing a slot machine. The machine is paying without a wining combination. It becomes obvious the machine is malfunctioning. Do you continue playing the machine, call an attendant, or walk away and say nothing.


Can a double standard be justified? Should a Casino be treated with the same morals and principles as other groups or individuals? Does a casino fall under the same meaning used to define a double standard?

Is it possible to change the meaning of being honest to justify a double standard? Or is it, cognitive dissonance, a conflict resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions, intellectual blindness to contradictions. Is it possible for a person to justify the contradiction between the two opposing beliefs.This might be considered incompetent rather than a dishonest way of thinking.Or is it an attempt to change a standard of belief by pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have.

Paul C.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  10:00:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Coat of Arms.....

on the table, One Hundred Twenty Thousands Dollars. I followed procedure and to this day never regretted doing my job or the right thing.
What happened to the $120,000 that you "turned in"?
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  10:05:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would keep the money. 'cause the Casino make its money tricking people into statistically unfavourable behaviour and the loss for the Casino would be insignificant while it would be a neat improvement for me and I am more likely to use this money for the 'common good' that the Casino is.

It is not an honest behaviour and I admit it shamelessly. But I am Chaotic-Good; not lawful (the Casino would probably be somewhere between True Neutral and Neutral-Evil if you are wondering -they are not really lawful because they only stick to the rules because they have too and, in many case, bend these rules when they can get away with it).
I am sure than most of you recognized the origin of this description, so get a nerd's cookie (or Nerdookie). They taste like Mountain-Dew.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Coat Of Arms
Skeptic Friend

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  12:18:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Coat Of Arms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Coat of Arms.....

on the table, One Hundred Twenty Thousands Dollars. I followed procedure and to this day never regretted doing my job or the right thing.
What happened to the $120,000 that you "turned in"?


The Middle Sex County District Attorneys Office took half the money. The money was used to fund the Middlesex drug task force. The city recieved the other half which was turned back into the general fund. I got an Attaboy.

Paul C.
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Coat Of Arms
Skeptic Friend

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  12:35:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Coat Of Arms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

I would keep the money. 'cause the Casino make its money tricking people into statistically unfavourable behaviour and the loss for the Casino would be insignificant while it would be a neat improvement for me and I am more likely to use this money for the 'common good' that the Casino is.

It is not an honest behaviour and I admit it shamelessly. But I am Chaotic-Good; not lawful (the Casino would probably be somewhere between True Neutral and Neutral-Evil if you are wondering -they are not really lawful because they only stick to the rules because they have too and, in many case, bend these rules when they can get away with it).
I am sure than most of you recognized the origin of this description, so get a nerd's cookie (or Nerdookie). They taste like Mountain-Dew.



So you are saying their is no double standards when it comes to Casino gambling, or their is a double standard but you get to have one and they don't. I can live with that.

Paul C.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  17:34:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simon.....

Excellent ethical index! I agree wholeheartedly with the scaling. I, also, would rate as chaotic good. I gather that COA would rate lawful good. Correct, Simon and COA?
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  19:04:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Bill (it is Bill, am I right?).

Well; what I am saying CoA, is not really a matter of double standard. It is still stealing, and that make me a thief of sort.

But there is degrees of gravity, stealing 10 bucks from Microsoft is not as bad as stealing it from the homeless woman at the end of the street.

Furthermore, the destination of the money also imports. Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is still, in my opinion, a good action.

If I happen to simultaneously be the person doing the stealing and the poor receiving the money, well, why should it change the morality of the action?

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  21:01:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Thanks Bill (it is Bill, am I right?).

Well; what I am saying CoA, is not really a matter of double standard. It is still stealing, and that make me a thief of sort.

But there is degrees of gravity, stealing 10 bucks from Microsoft is not as bad as stealing it from the homeless woman at the end of the street.

Furthermore, the destination of the money also imports. Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is still, in my opinion, a good action.

If I happen to simultaneously be the person doing the stealing and the poor receiving the money, well, why should it change the morality of the action?
I would tell a check out person at a big chain grocery if he/she made a mistake in my favor. On the other hand, I would probably take the money from the slot machine. What is interesting about that is they are both stealing from the rich. Perhaps the difference is it's possible for the check out person to come up with the wrong count and get into trouble...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  21:54:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All Members.....

Who else would like to volunteer where they feel they belong on the SRD Alignment Scale?

Simon and I are Chaotic-Good!
COA is probably Lawful-Good!
Kil is Lawful-Goody-Two-Shoes
Dave is busily constructing his own scale, we'll hear from him later.
Filthy is Unlawful-Biker-Motherfucking-Bad; but a stand-up guy!

Anybody else want to volunteer like Kil and Dave did?

Filthy didn't have to, everybody knows about Filth!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2008 :  22:06:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Coat of Arms.....

The Middle Sex County District Attorneys Office took half the money. The money was used to fund the Middlesex drug task force. The city recieved the other half which was turned back into the general fund. I got an Attaboy.
Sounds like at least half the money went to a commendable cause (Middlesex Drug Task Force). As far as the final destination of the General Funds half, who knows? Maybe line some politician's pocket, maybe feed a starving baby!

I would have taken the whole bundle, kept a piece for my trouble, and given the rest to a really good cause that I knew was legit!

You're a commendably honest guy, Coat, but, (at least then), a little naïve!


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Coat Of Arms
Skeptic Friend

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2008 :  03:14:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Coat Of Arms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil[/i]
I would tell a check out person at a big chain grocery if he/she made a mistake in my favor. On the other hand, I would probably take the money from the slot machine. What is interesting about that is they are both stealing from the rich. Perhaps the difference is it's possible for the check out person to come up with the wrong count and get into trouble...

A store clerk would get caned; correcting his mistake is simply the right thing to do. No one has any obligation to a Casino. Casinos are built for one purpose. To relieve you of your money under the pretense of entertainment.

Originally posted by bngbuck
I would have taken the whole bundle, kept a piece for my trouble, and given the rest to a really good cause that I knew was legit!
You're a commendably honest guy, Coat, but, (at least then), a little nave!
This was in 1985, Back then $120.000 dollars was a great deal of money, and it still is. I wouldn't say I was naive back then, I just believe I did the right thing. I took an OATH OF HONOR.

HONOR means giving one's word as a bond and guarantee.

BETRAY is defined as breaking faith and proving false.

The BADGE is a visible-symbol of the power of your office.

INTEGRITY is firm adherence to principles, both in our private and public life.

CHARACTER means the qualities and standards of behavior that distinguish an individual.

The PUBLIC TRUST is a duty imposed in faith to those we are sworn to serve.

COURAGE is having the "heart," the mental, and the moral strength to venture, persevere, withstand, and overcome danger, difficulty, and fear.

ACCOUNTABILITY means that we are answerable and responsible for our actions.

COMMUNITY is the municipalities, neighborhoods, and citizens we serve.











Paul C.
Edited by - Coat Of Arms on 05/29/2008 03:23:38
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2008 :  07:10:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Dave is busily constructing his own scale, we'll hear from him later.
I'm sure that some would have me on the "evil" side of the scale, even chaotic evil (after all, I'm drunk on my administrative power here at SFN).

MUUUUUhahahahahahahahahaha!

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2008 :  07:18:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In fact; I'd say drunk on power to be Lawful Evil; because you still abide be the rules even if you do so in your own self-interest. BngBuck sounded chaotic good (or maybe chaotic neutral) in his last reply.

CoA is definitively lawful good. Like Superman and King Arthur.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/29/2008 :  10:44:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
COA.....

This was in 1985, Back then $120.000 dollars was a great deal of money, and it still is. I wouldn't say I was naive back then, I just believe I did the right thing. I took an OATH OF HONOR

Wow! You are Lawful-Beatific on Ethical Steroids! It is truly refreshing to find someone here, in the essentially rotten commercial culture of the USA that we all live in, that holds one's self to such high standards!

I couldn't do it and, more, wouldn't do it; but that doesn't lessen my admiration for your extraordinarily high ethics!

Would that we could have a few folks at your level of recognition of right and wrong in political office. The only one in the current crop of aspirants that even is a possibility is Obama. We'll probably have a chance to judge him in action! Have you ever thought of running for office?

COA, do you subscribe to any particular religious or "spiritual" persuasions? If not, what is the secular logical and cognitive basis for your extraordinary personal code of ethics?
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