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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2008 : 13:20:58 [Permalink]
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Which goes to show that while scientisis might be a bit smarter than the rest of us, they are no more sane.
Which might help explain Sarfari, Gish, Behe, Wells, et al.
Excellent, Ricky!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2008 : 11:07:19 [Permalink]
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How about Robert Oppenheimer - who assiduously pursued the goal of creating a nuclear fission bomb to a successful conclusion in the Trinity explosion of 1945 - while fully aware of a distinct possibility, indicated by the highest developed physics of that time, that there was a significant statistical possibility that the nuclear fission reaction would ignite the atmosphere and destroy the earth in a single stroke! There's a guy with cojonés!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2008 : 11:28:53 [Permalink]
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Wikipedia tells the story a bit differently:
| Teller also raised the speculative possibility that an atomic bomb might "ignite" the atmosphere, because of a hypothetical fusion reaction of nitrogen nuclei. Bethe calculated, according to Serber, that it could not happen. In his book The Road from Los Alamos, Bethe says a refutation was written by Konopinski, C. Marvin, and Teller as report LA-602, showing that ignition of the atmosphere was impossible, not just unlikely. In Serber's account, Oppenheimer mentioned it to Arthur Compton, who "didn't have enough sense to shut up about it. It somehow got into a document that went to Washington" which led to the question being "never laid to rest". |
But even so, I wouldn't consider it badass. Each of the other scientists did things which they knew would be painful and/or life threatening. Taking a risk just doesn't exactly measure up. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2008 : 12:21:39 [Permalink]
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Ok, how 'bout this one? He could well have fried his brain like breakfast bacon ingesting an all but unknown substance.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 03:54:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
filthy, Hoffman was #4 on the list of 6.
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D'oh!  How'd I miss that?
Guess I was too enraptured with the guy who was trying to turn himself into file gumbo with the rocket sled.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/02/2008 03:56:13 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2008 : 12:37:10 [Permalink]
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Ricky.....
| Bethe says a refutation was written by Konopinski, C. Marvin, and Teller as report LA-602, showing that ignition of the atmosphere was impossible, not just unlikely |
However, the Indopedia states:Early concern about possible ignition of the atmosphere with a nuclear explosion.
Before the first test explosion at the Trinity site, the possibility was studied of a catastrophic chain reaction igniting the whole atmosphere:
E. Konopinski, C. Marvin and E. Teller, Ignition of the Atmosphere with Nuclear Bombs, Los Alamos Laboratory report LA-602.
The conclusion was that this was very unlikely. See [2] |
I guess you can find what ever you want, if you just use the right ....pedia| But even so, I wouldn't consider it badass. Each of the other scientists did things which they knew would be painful and/or life threatening. Taking a risk just doesn't exactly measure up. |
Depends on what you want to call badass, just plain stupid, or totally irresponsible on a cosmic scale. Teller was dead serious in his original concerns, his calculations showed a statistical possibility of nitrogen fusion. Turns out the temperatures weren't nearly high enough. He was wrong, but his concerns were controversial and strongly debated at the time. He finally reconsidered and joined others in accepting Bethe's calculations.
Oppie then decided to go with the majority opinion which was contrary to Teller's original speculations. Richard Rhodes writes extensively on these events in The Making of the Atomic Bomb, the most definitive history of the Manhattan Project ever written. Rhodes certainly indicates that it was a calculated risk - Bethe showed that the probability of nitrogen fusion was considerably less than Teller had originally calculated because of the temperatures he predicted for the fission process were too high.
Curious, though, that Teller had these forebodings about a cataclysmic possibility from a fission reaction, then became a ferocious nuclear warhawk and darling of the über conservatives, and went on to become "the father of the hydrogen bomb" - with initial opposition from Oppenheimer and many other of the original scientists that contributed to the development of the fission bomb. Theoretically, a fusion bomb large enough to destroy the earth, could be constructed!
Teller was one twisted, brilliant, vindictive, strangeloveian character, not exactly revered by his colleagues:
| Teller's false claims that Stanislaw Ulam made no significant contribution to the development of the hydrogen bomb (despite Ulam's key insights of using compression and staging elements to generate the thermonuclear reaction) and his vicious personal attacks on Oppenheimer caused even greater animosity within the general physics community towards Teller. |
Kind of brings to mind the recent black hole concerns about the Large Hadron Collider at CERN in Geneva! Maybe we'll figure out a way to annihilate old Mother Earth after all!
Definitely badass!
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6 Badass Scientists
