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Jelly Fish
New Member
46 Posts |
 Posted - 02/27/2003 : 07:05:38 [Permalink]
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Whilst we are clarifying user names, I just want to make it clear that I really am a Jelly Fish.
Jelly fish xx |
Glendower..“I can call spirits from the vasty deep.”
Hotspur..“Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?”
Jelly.."Not a hope in hell"
adapted from Henry 1V part 1 by Mr W. Shakespeare |
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 09:19:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jelly Fish
Whilst we are clarifying user names, I just want to make it clear that I really am a Jelly Fish.
Jelly fish xx
I, for one, never thought to doubt you. 
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Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 11:03:33 [Permalink]
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| My name's not really chainsaw. I picked up that nickname after I got frustrated with trimming the hedges one year. Nothing ever grew back. |
You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science. |
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Jelly Fish
New Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 11:54:54 [Permalink]
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Org, you should always doubt, my friend. What sort of Jellyfish do you think I am?....a portugese man o' war?
chainsaw rofl....thats a demolition job? We should call you The Demolition Man!
Jelly |
Glendower..“I can call spirits from the vasty deep.”
Hotspur..“Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?”
Jelly.."Not a hope in hell"
adapted from Henry 1V part 1 by Mr W. Shakespeare |
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 11:57:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jelly Fish
Org, you should always doubt, my friend. What sort of Jellyfish do you think I am?....a portugese man o' war?
<snip>
Jelly
A (BSD) BlowFish?  |
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Jelly Fish
New Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2003 : 12:16:24 [Permalink]
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rofl Org....I have been known to blow hot and cold on occassions...but a blow fish I aint.
In the words of the great Muhammed Ali (or how we Jelly Fish like to misqoute him)
" I float like a Jellyfish,
and I sting like a Jellyfish"
Jelly
floating awaaaaayyyy |
Glendower..“I can call spirits from the vasty deep.”
Hotspur..“Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?”
Jelly.."Not a hope in hell"
adapted from Henry 1V part 1 by Mr W. Shakespeare |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2003 : 22:15:27 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by Fireballn
The universe needed to attain the necessary parameters to support life.
Question 1: Is there an equation that shows the probability of this to occur in mathematical form?
Your question is flawed, I'm afraid to say, as the necessary assumptions you are making in regard to this probability have not been stated. Do you mean to say, if there is no God, what was the probability of life arising on earth? There are formulas for that particular discussion. The resulting chance is so small as to approach zero. Evolutionist do not like to discuss this matter, however, and like to work with the idea that we already exist, so it must of happened like we think, right? Flawed logic, but it is the answer I usually hear. Now if your question is, if there is a God, what was the probability of life occurring on earth? Then, your answer is 1 chance out of 1 or 100% probability, as God by definition is supposed to have infinite power and knowledge, so He was surely able to make it happen.
Question 2: Could a probability equation be drawn to an individual person. (Looking at all the evidence the probability that person X exists is 1 in ________.)
Again, you are missing parameters....if there is no God, you chances of existing were nill. If there is a God, you chances of existing were dependent on God's grace..You exist, therefore...1 in 1.
Now if you asked, what are the chances that such and such a person would arise in this particular family with this particular genius or stupidity...well, your guess is as good as anybodies. LOL! |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 06:42:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
There are formulas for that particular discussion. The resulting chance is so small as to approach zero.
This is simply not true. I addressed this in my first post in this thread, and others have also throughout. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 09:48:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
There are formulas for that particular discussion. The resulting chance is so small as to approach zero.
Whatever a mathematical chance by an equation, whenever that event happens the statistical probability of that event occuring becomes 1. It doesn't matter what the probability might have been, the fact is that life occurred. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 10:27:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Evolutionist do not like to discuss this matter, however, and like to work with the idea that we already exist, so it must of happened like we think, right?
Got to love those lies don't you. Evolutionists, chemist, and others who study the origin of life love to discuss such matters and do so, often quite vehemently. Of course the majority of evolutionary biologists do not study such issues so normally do not discuss it (they know where their expertise is, do you?)
Edited to add the following:
The reason the majority of evolutionary biologists do not study the origins of life is because it is more of a chemical discipline (especially organic chemistry) and while they may be quite knowledgable in such areas they are not the experts. Thus you will find that the majority of those who study the origins of life to be organic chemist not biologists. |
| Edited by - jmcginn on 03/05/2003 10:29:53 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2003 : 21:41:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
There are formulas for that particular discussion. The resulting chance is so small as to approach zero.
...As to approach a small number but not zero. I would like to pick one of those formulas apart. I've seen one once, but lost the URL. Please post it, and I'll have a go on it.
quote:
Evolutionist do not like to discuss this matter, however...
That's just pure BS! I'd love to discuss it.
quote:
Again, you are missing parameters....if there is no God, you chances of existing were nill.
Again, the truth is quite the opposite. There is a fairly good chance that life will emerge on a planet with the right parameters.
quote:
Now if you asked, what are the chances that such and such a person would arise in this particular family with this particular genius or stupidity...well, your guess is as good as anybodies. LOL!
No, like I've stated in a previous post: it can be defined by the number of base-pairs in the DNA that might mutate before the time of conseption. If the mutation hits a intron (inactive part of the DNA) or an active gene. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2003 : 10:56:51 [Permalink]
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| Just because there is a vanishingly small chance that something will occur, that doesn't mean that it can't or won't occur. For example, if you take a well-shuffled deck of playing cards and lay them face up one at a time, you will see a particular order of cards. The odds of that specific order occuring are quite small (something like 52 factorial, I think), and yet there it is! We obviously can't invoke divine intervention in this case, so why do so in the case of other seemingly unlikely events? |
"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2003 : 11:15:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Just because there is a vanishingly small chance that something will occur, that doesn't mean that it can't or won't occur. For example, if you take a well-shuffled deck of playing cards and lay them face up one at a time, you will see a particular order of cards. The odds of that specific order occuring are quite small (something like 52 factorial, I think), and yet there it is! We obviously can't invoke divine intervention in this case, so why do so in the case of other seemingly unlikely events?
As any serious poker player knows well enough to put his money on.
The odds of winning the Powerball are staggering, but Somebody is going to win it, in spite of being only one out of millions. Thus it is with evolution. The odds mean little. If it can happen, sooner or later, it will.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend
Canada
179 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 16:09:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
[quote]
The odds of winning the Powerball are staggering, but Somebody is going to win it, in spite of being only one out of millions. Thus it is with evolution. The odds mean little. If it can happen, sooner or later, it will.
This is true......but in the Powerball of the origin of life, someone or something, or God, or evolution, or whatever, something had to pull those numbers. Those numbers needed to be pulled in some order as the parameters of life dictates.
The probability of that order is intriguing.
And I know the probability of something that already exists is one to one.
Murphy's law is, I will admit, a strong force. |
If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits- |
| Edited by - Fireballn on 03/07/2003 16:34:29 |
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 16:43:28 [Permalink]
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Ah but again the odds of life originating (or at least all of the calculations I have ever seen) all are based on spongantious formation of life from a soup of chemicals. In reality these are very improbable to the point of impossible.
However when one applies a system of selection to simple organic molecules (which have been shown to form spontaneously quite easily) a system of chemical evolution quickly emerges and interesting products begin to form. In fact these chemicals evolve quite normally along competing for limited components. Under certain conditions (such as reducing environment on a clay substrate) you get the quite a few of the precursors of life, again spontaneously.
IMO the "something" pulling the numbers is the following:
1. Changing and varying environments.
2. Existing soup of simple organic molecules (that exist or form naturally in some of the various environments).
3. Some system of selection for certain molecules over others similar to the systems we see spontaneously forming today in certain simulated experiments.
Under these conditions for enough time (since the effects of selection are additive) the odds of life forming become quite low. I have yet to see an estimates of such odds to date though. |
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