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Captain Moonbeam
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  19:58:27  Show Profile Send Captain Moonbeam a Private Message
Yet reading your denial of the obvious shows just how closed minded you are. All manner of reputable people have both seen alien craft and also even been taken aboard tham and been medically examined. However, you small-minded fools have never seen one so they must not exist.

Rational BLOWHARDS like you used to think that rocks couldn't fall from the sky -- as if a bunch of craters on the moon were made by lunar ant lions! Well duh, of course rocks fall from the sky. And it is the same with UFOs. There are many, many, many reports of them, even by cops and astronauts, and all sorts of pictures, even movies. Like the CIA would not have discredited those pictures if they could!

Also, there is all the historical evidence. Like for example the alien spaceship the Mayans carved and also the batteries found in Greece. Plus, why make giant animal and spider pictures in Peru unless you want to look at them from up above?

You folks better open up your eyes. And also start using your heads for more then hatracks. Where do you think the idea for many modern inventions came from? Like teflon for example. Hundreds of years of chemestry and teflon is found after Roswell? A coincince - hah, I think not.

You should spend less time debunking the obvious -- like rocks falling from the sky -- and try to figure out why the governments of the world are covering these things up. I feel very concerned for the future.


watch the skies...

chainsaw
Skeptic Friend

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:18:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chainsaw a Private Message
You need to speak with Doomar or Darwin Alogos, our resident jebus freaks. They believe that the aliens you speak of are agents from god. You guys should get along just fine.

BTW, I have an model NW 4-8-4 steam that is my favorite.

You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science.
Edited by - chainsaw on 02/24/2003 20:23:05
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Captain Moonbeam
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:24:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Captain Moonbeam a Private Message
The best you can do is an ad-hominen attack? Wow! The power of your rational brain overwealms me.

watch the skies...
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Infamous
Skeptic Friend

85 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:26:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Infamous a Private Message
Why do you use the word "rational" as if it were an insult?

And people can lie or hallucinate or just not have enough knowledge to understand what they are seeing...eyewitness accounts are not sufficient evidence to be the sole proof of a claim.

Extraordinary proof for meteor-impact craters was presented when astronauts visited the moon, when tektites from asteroid impacts were found on Earth, and even more dramatically when comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 collided with Jupiter.

No evidence of comparable magnitude for extraterrestrial visitation has been submitted. That's not to say it doesn't occur, but the requirement for evidence has not been satisfied. If exterrestrial visitation does occur, then someday evidence will be found, and we'll have learned something.

You DON'T learn anything by accepting something which has not been proven as fact; your acceptance of an unproven idea could be wrong, in which case it will benefit no one if you accept it. Your acceptance could also be right, but without going through the scientific process, you will not know the reason why it is right.
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Hugh Jorgan
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:26:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hugh Jorgan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Moonbeam

The best you can do is an ad-hominen attack? Wow! The power of your rational brain overwealms me.



I've seen em. I've been probed by em. Intense. I'm tellin ya.
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Captain Moonbeam
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:34:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Captain Moonbeam a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Infamous

Why do you use the word "rational" as if it were an insult?


Because self-proclaimed "rational" people have been flapping their gums for centuries. Anything that doesn't exist already can't exist according to their logic. Hence my example of meteors being dismissed by a previous generation of "rational" thinkers. Rocks don't fall, planes will never work, you can't turn lead into gold. Blah, blah, blah.

If you'll recall, during the 1800s reports of rocks falling from the sky was dismissed by the "rational" elite as hogwash, especially since nobody but unwashed peons were reporting them. Very similar to the UFO situation. Numerous -- and I mean ver numerous -- sightings, reports and photographs are dismissed as hallucinations, fabrications, misidentifications or hoaxes.

After all, the peons aren't as smart as the self-appointed "rational" elite.

watch the skies...
Edited by - Captain Moonbeam on 02/24/2003 20:36:55
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:35:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chainsaw a Private Message
Captain Moonbeam you assumed I attacked when I only introduced you to like minded thinkers and I even turned you on to a lovely model train engine. Look it up, you'll like it. No need to fear.

You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science.
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Captain Moonbeam
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:39:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Captain Moonbeam a Private Message
Oh, you think model trains are silly Mr I Memorized a Gazzilion County Seats? I bow to your superiority.

watch the skies...
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ktesibios
SFN Regular

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  20:46:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ktesibios a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Moonbeam
Hundreds of years of chemestry and teflon is found after Roswell? A coincince - hah, I think not.



The celebrated Roswell incident took place in 1947. Teflon was first discovered by Dr. Roy Plunkett in 1938. You can read about it in the book "Serendipity: Accidental Discoveries in Science" by Royston M. Roberts (ISBN 0471602035). Branes & Noble has it in stock.

Teflon was the seal material in the gaseous diffusion plant used by the Manhattan Project to produce enriched uranium to be fed to the electromagnetic separation plant which produced near-pure U235 for the Bomb.

DuPont is understandably somewhat reticent about their contributions to the development of the atomic bomb, but even their Web site has this to say about Teflon chronology:

"The TeflonŽ trademark was coined by DuPont and registered in 1945; the first products were sold commercially under the trademark beginning in 1946. Applications and product innovations snowballed quickly. Today, the family of TeflonŽ fluoropolymers from DuPont consists of: PTFE, the original resin; FEP, introduced in 1960; TefzelŽ ETFE in 1970; and PFA, in 1972."

Dig? The trademark was registered two years before a batch of debris from a top-secret Air Force experiment landed in New Mexico and primed the pump for ream upon ream of creduloid spew about crashed aliens.

After Roswell, my @##. Does time flow backward on your planet?


"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers
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Hugh Jorgan
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  21:04:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hugh Jorgan a Private Message
Senator Moonbeam, I think you need to take a pill and lie down.

Not all of us are some crackpots who see government agents in dark suits around every corner. Some of us are real life Americans who just happen to be victims of whatever circumstance that the cosmos seems to fall upon us.
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Captain Moonbeam
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  21:19:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Captain Moonbeam a Private Message
ktesibios,

You are the credulous one aren't you? Duh, of course they were clever enough to hide Teflon under the guise of an older trademark. Just like the second Mars probe conveniently explained away the face as jumble of shadows.

watch the skies...
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Captain Moonbeam
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  21:20:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Captain Moonbeam a Private Message
Hugh,

You needn't worry, what you're going through is a normal reaction. Such a shift in your worldview is unsettling to all that experience it. You will acclimate, although it will be up to you to sort the wheels within wheels.

watch the skies...
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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend

USA
85 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2003 :  23:31:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit LordofEntropy's Homepage Send LordofEntropy a Private Message
Reeks of Troll here.

Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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ktesibios
SFN Regular

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2003 :  03:06:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ktesibios a Private Message
quote:
i]Originally posted by Captain Moonbeam

ktesibios,

You are the credulous one aren't you? Duh, of course they were clever enough to hide Teflon under the guise of an older trademark. Just like the second Mars probe conveniently explained away the face as jumble of shadows.



U.S. Patent 2,230,654
Tetrafluoroethylene Polymers

Roy J. Plunkett, Wilmington, Del. assignor to Kinetic Chemicals, Inc., Wilmington, Delaware

Application July 1, 1939
Patented Feb. 4, 1941

You'll note that the Claims section of the patent describes both the properties of polytetrafluoroethylene and methods of producing it in enough detail that there's no reasonable doubt that the substance described is Teflon.

Since your next bit of ad hoc handwaving will no doubt be to claim that "they" have falsified the Patent Office records, tell us, O Great Fountain of Knowledge, exactly what it was that was used as a shaft seal material for blowers moving large quantities of the viciously reactive uranium hexafluoride through the 3,122 stages of the K-25 plant at Oak Ridge in 1945? Or how it is that the first commercial Teflon products were marketed in 1946?


"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers
Edited by - ktesibios on 02/25/2003 03:57:47
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ktesibios
SFN Regular

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2003 :  03:56:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ktesibios a Private Message
Oh, and something I forgot to mention:

New ideas in science do sometimes meet with dismissal, but when evidence in their favor accumulates, the "rational elite" you so like to slag eventually, and quite rationally, accepts them.

Geocentrism held on for centuries, until increasingly accurate observations of the apparent motion of the planets made a geocentric model that really matched what we could see impossible. The Keplerian solar system became generally accepted because it explained visible reality better than any other available model.

Continental drift, the nonexistence of the luminiferous aether, relativity, quantum theory, a 4.6 billion year old Earth- all examples of how an initially implausible idea gains acceptance on the strength of accumulating evidence.

Get the point? Reality, in the form of repeatable observations of the physical world, leads, we follow. Produce enough evidence in support of an idea and it will gain acceptance.

That's the neat thing about science. You can't fake it (at least not for long)- if your claims fail to jibe with reality, someone is sure to catch you out eventually. You can't freeze a currently accepted model into place- if its predictions fail or things it can't predict or explain are discovered it will eventually be supplanted by an improved model. It's one part of human existence where the old saw "murder will out" really does apply.

So, if you insist on believing in extraterrestrial visitors meddling in our affairs, very nice. If you want to convince others, produce some really incontrovertible evidence of their presence- like a sample of material with non-Earthly isotope ratios or other physical properties beyond the possibility of Earthly production. Or an answer to a scientific question which can be verified and which is not predictable by our current state of knowledge. Or a sample of an extraterrestrial living creature. Something better than shaky interpretations of archaeology or anecdotes.

Do that and minds will change faster than anything but light. And it will be a lot more satisfying than trolling on a message board.


"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers
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chainsaw
Skeptic Friend

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2003 :  06:28:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chainsaw a Private Message
Mr Captain Moonbeam, you need to cool your jets and quit jumping off high cliffs, you're going to hurt yourself sometime.

You assumed wrong, I do not think model trains are silly. I'll bet my n-scale layout is bigger than any of yours.

Have you met Doomar and Darwin Alogos yet?

You can "believe" what you want, but you do have to get your science right or you'll flunk science.
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