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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
 Posted - 03/19/2003 : 15:10:09
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To take a stand against religion and God or faith seems to be a truly negative and, possibly, worthless endeavor, yet it is the focal point of much effort by the avowed skeptic. Consider the belief that one cannot prove there is a God by scientific trial, therefore, we will remain skeptic till such time that proof is given. Wow, you've already destroyed the possibility of being proven wrong by the initial argument that you can't be proven wrong scientifically, therefore, what is the point? It would seem that the point is to shore up a futile belief or unbelief system by refuting all arguments with vehemence and ridicule, alluding to the "unscientific" arguments of faith. Hmmmm.? Is this a worthwhile use of time, to refute what you deny exists. It is a vanity of vanities. If you are so assurred of your position, why remain skeptical of your position by constantly attempting to shore it up? If you are skeptical of all matters of faith and religion, yet refuse to be persuaded that such things have any validity, why continue to play the hypocritical game of pretending? Why not just "let's eat and drink and party, for tomorrow we die"? Unless, of course, there is doubt as to the certainty of your position, in which case, you do well to question, only why not be honest with yourself and admit your lack of certainty about any of this? Is our pride getting in the way of true knowledge? Could there really be such a sin that blinds men to truth and drives them to vainly debate opposing arguments for the sake of bolstering self image, rather than searching for the truth? It would seem, by shear volume of postings for such causes that this malignant vanity known as "pride" exists.
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Franc28
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 15:45:35 [Permalink]
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How ironic. You took one endless paragraph to tell us that we are losing our time. Congradulations, you're an idiot.
There is no god, get over it.
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 16:23:03 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by Franc28
How ironic. You took one endless paragraph to tell us that we are losing our time. Congradulations, you're an idiot.
The truth is hard to bear sometimes, but thanks for a good laugh. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 16:26:50 [Permalink]
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Hmph. I'm not entirely sure of what Doomar is trying to say, here. I think it might finally translate out to that tired, old chessnut of: "Atheism is a religion, too!" Doo, if that's the case, you took the long way around to say it.
I have no desire to refute the existance of any supreme being. What do you believe in? God? Yaweh? Allah? Quetzacoatl? The Forth Stooge? I am perfectly content to have you go on believing in it. Please allow me to continue my lack of belief in peace.
It seems odd to me that those who see angels and demons, and hear voices from an almighty, are pretty much those who already believe in such things. Seems to me that an almighty would get a lot more converts if he/she/it targeted and scared the bejabbers out of us unbelievers.
But whadda I know.....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/19/2003 16:51:07 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 16:51:27 [Permalink]
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I don't usually choose to get involved in these discussions. But I had to have my brakes repaired today and I'm tired of working on an upcoming Kil Report. So, I have decided to take the bait...
quote:
Doormar:To take a stand against religion and God or faith seems to be a truly negative and, possibly, worthless endeavor, yet it is the focal point of much effort by the avowed skeptic.
No, it isn't. It probably seems that way to you since you almost always post here in the religion folder, or in creation/evolution. Both folders obviously deal with matters of religion. Your projecting.
quote:
Doormar:Consider the belief that one cannot prove there is a God by scientific trial, therefore, we will remain skeptic till such time that proof is given. Wow, you've already destroyed the possibility of being proven wrong by the initial argument that you can't be proven wrong scientifically, therefore, what is the point?
The supernatural is outside of what science can test or measure. Science deals with the natural world. So, you are correct. Personally, I have seen no convincing evidence that there is anything outside of the natural world. Maybe you have. You should understand, God isn't being singled out as the claim that skeptics care the most about. The claim that God or Gods exists is just one of many metaphysical claims made that should be viewed with a critical eye. If your assertion is that we should accept certain supernatural claims even though they do not meet the criteria of falsifiabilaty, just where do we draw the line? Should we also believe John Edward's because many people believe he can do what he says he can do? Should we simply take the word of those who say that they have seen a ghost and drop our doubts about their existence? How should we approach claims of reincarnation? There has to be some method for evaluation claims. Are you asking us to not be skeptics anymore?
quote:
Doomar:It would seem that the point is to shore up a futile belief or unbelief system by refuting all arguments with vehemence and ridicule, alluding to the "unscientific" arguments of faith. Hmmmm.? Is this a worthwhile use of time, to refute what you deny exists.
I don't deny the existence of anything supernatural. I doubt it. You know, can't prove a negative and all of that. Is it worth my time examining these claims? Yes. Is it worth my time arguing about every claim? No. That is why I hardly ever post in this forum.
quote:
Doomar:It is a vanity of vanities. If you are so assurred of your position, why remain skeptical of your position by constantly attempting to shore it up? If you are skeptical of all matters of faith and religion, yet refuse to be persuaded that such things have any validity, why continue to play the hypocritical game of pretending? Why not just "let's eat and drink and party, for tomorrow we die"?
Huh? Do I sense some frustration? Speaking for myself, I think it is important for a skeptic to remain open minded. But there is still the matter of what constitutes good evidence. I will once again direct you to the "About Skepticism" area of this site. There you can read two articles that may help you to understand where we are coming from. I'll wait here with my beer and some chips and a noise maker I got at a party shop. Let me know what you think...
quote:
Doormar:Unless, of course, there is doubt as to the certainty of your position, in which case, you do well to question, only why not be honest with yourself and admit your lack of certainty about any of this?
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
quote:
Doormar:Is our pride getting in the way of true knowledge? Could there really be such a sin that blinds men to truth and drives them to vainly debate opposing arguments for the sake of bolstering self image, rather than searching for the truth? It would seem, by shear volume of postings for such causes that this malignant vanity known as "pride" exists.
Well, gee. I know your not talking about me. That would really worry me...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 16:52:40 [Permalink]
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Wow, what a prolix piece of verbal masturbation, and a load of crap.
"To take a stand against religion and God or faith seems to be a truly negative and, possibly, worthless endeavor"
To an automaton that needs a man(speaking for the Pixie in the Sky, mysteriously absent as always) to tell them how to think and live their lives, I guess it might seem worthless. I can decide right and wrong, how to treat living things, and how to live my life, all on my own. I don't need the pixie or the pixie dust to do this.
As for the rest of your post. Perhaps you should answer your own questions. If you are so certain about your position, why do you keep coming here to shore it up? Why not just "let's eat and drink and party, for tomorrow we die and God will give us little cushy cloud seats and our harps, and will burn the unbelievers"?
"Could there really be such a sin that blinds men to truth and drives them to vainly debate opposing arguments for the sake of bolstering self image, rather than searching for the truth?"
Yes, the church is great at this. Ask any scientist burned to death over the ages by your church. Except there usually wasn't debate. It was usually your church saying "You dare refute God by claiming the revolves around the Sun!"
"It would seem, by shear volume of postings for such causes that this malignant vanity known as "pride" exists."
Oh you mean the pride that religious types exhibit continuously assuming that humans are so special that there just has to be a god who watches over them. Everything else in the universe just dies and decays, and yet there is some special place in "heaven" for humans. That the world is our playland and it was all made for us, by a god that looks like us even!
The hypocrisy and arrogance of religion is disgusting, even considering the level of arrogance of the human race in general.
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Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 16:53:17 [Permalink]
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Doomar, you know the rules...whatever you're smoking must be shared!
But seriously this is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen in some time. Doomar is urging people to just bow their heads for the hell of it because truth can never be known so why try. We'd still be living in caves if we followed advice like this. I don't even feel like trying to be nice because Doomar has taken off and gone into fanatic mode. Doomar, you can live the life of a fool if you want to but don't expect everyone to dig the fool lifestyle the way you do.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 18:08:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Doomar, you know the rules...whatever you're smoking must be shared!
YES!! Gimmie some!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Franc28
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 18:12:56 [Permalink]
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Still wasting your time accusing us of wasting our time, Doomar ? What a loser.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 18:25:55 [Permalink]
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Hey Franc, welcome to Septic Fiends!
Don't be too hard on ol' Doo. He knows not what he says.
And, it's these folks that keep us on our toes, can I get a big AMEN on the toes, here, GLORY!
Thankee, thankee. Even the one with the ingrown nail caught that!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 18:55:35 [Permalink]
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It seems that Doomar's post could have been more simply stated as "Faith in god equals true knowledge".
One word comes to mind. Ridiculous
It has been asked more than once, but "Why would god create us with this incredible brain and then expect us not to use it?" |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 20:31:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
To take a stand against religion and God or faith seems to be a truly negative and, possibly, worthless endeavor, yet it is the focal point of much effort by the avowed skeptic. Consider the belief that one cannot prove there is a God by scientific trial, therefore, we will remain skeptic till such time that proof is given. Wow, you've already destroyed the possibility of being proven wrong by the initial argument that you can't be proven wrong scientifically, therefore, what is the point? It would seem that the point is to shore up a futile belief or unbelief system by refuting all arguments with vehemence and ridicule, alluding to the "unscientific" arguments of faith. Hmmmm.? Is this a worthwhile use of time, to refute what you deny exists. It is a vanity of vanities. If you are so assurred of your position, why remain skeptical of your position by constantly attempting to shore it up? If you are skeptical of all matters of faith and religion, yet refuse to be persuaded that such things have any validity, why continue to play the hypocritical game of pretending? Why not just "let's eat and drink and party, for tomorrow we die"? Unless, of course, there is doubt as to the certainty of your position, in which case, you do well to question, only why not be honest with yourself and admit your lack of certainty about any of this? Is our pride getting in the way of true knowledge? Could there really be such a sin that blinds men to truth and drives them to vainly debate opposing arguments for the sake of bolstering self image, rather than searching for the truth? It would seem, by shear volume of postings for such causes that this malignant vanity known as "pride" exists.
Which God? You talkin' Zeus? Vishnu? Wotan? Ahuramazda? All it
takes is for a god to show up somewhere and start talkin' trash and
visibly breaking the laws of physics there wouldn't be a need for
so-called scientific proof because we'd have one big ole fact in
front of us plain as day. 'Course you personally take a stand
against all the gods I've mentioned above because you have faith
that they're all false. You can't prove that they're false
scientifically or metaphysically, you just gotta bleev they're false.
I don't think most of us post here to 'shore up a futile belief or
unbelief system', most of us come here for an argument. (You may
be the exception, having instead encountered "getting hit on the
head lessons". Waaaah! [/python])
Why are you here? Are you shoring up your futile belief system by
refuting all arguments with false logic and ridicule, deluded by
the unscientific arguments of faith?
Henry
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- TW
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Franc28
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2003 : 23:41:46 [Permalink]
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"Don't be too hard on ol' Doo. He knows not what he says."
*sigh* Don't they all...
Thanks for the welcome.
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Orpheus
Skeptic Friend
92 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 06:25:48 [Permalink]
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We seem to have scared doomar away...a pity to be sure..
If doomar is in fact subscribing to a radical scepticism of all knowledge, this of course, includes his own belief in god..so yeah, what can you say?
I'm just not sure what Doomar's original post means...if he were one of my students, I would have to give him an F- for unintelligibility, circular reasoning, and lack of "premised" arguments... |
Find your own damned answers! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 07:25:05 [Permalink]
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Orpheus wrote:quote:
We seem to have scared doomar away...a pity to be sure..
Don't be too quick to conclude that. There were only about 12 hours between his OP here and your post. People, even unintelligible people, have jobs and whatnot. Heck, it's been about 12 days since DA's last post, and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's 'gone'.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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walt fristoe
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2003 : 15:09:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
To take a stand against religion and God or faith seems to be a truly negative and, possibly, worthless endeavor, yet it is the focal point of much effort by the avowed skeptic.
If you are skeptical of all matters of faith and religion, yet refuse to be persuaded that such things have any validity, why continue to play the hypocritical game of pretending? Why not just "let's eat and drink and party, for tomorrow we die?
"The point is surely that the only kind of unremitting negativism is apathy, not attack. Everything that is attacked has its obverse 'positive' side. If you are against war, you are for peace; if you are against privilidge, you are for equality; if you are against censorship, you are for freedom of speech; if you are against superstition, you are for reason; if you are against humbug, you are for honesty; and if you are against mystical obscurantism, you are for freethought."
Barbara Smoker, former president of the National Secular Society
"...why have those countries with a strong Church-State alliance displayed such an eagerness to enforce religious dogmas and eliminate dissent through the power of the state? Why has Christianity refused, whenever possible, to allow its beliefs to compete in a free marketplace of ideas? The answer is obvious--and revealing. Christianity is peddling an inferior product, one that cannot withstand critical investigation. Unable to compete favorably with other theories, it has sought to gain a monopoly through a state franchise, which means: through the use of force."
George Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
"...if devotion to truth is the hallmark of morality, there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking...the alledged shortcut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind."
Ayn Rand
"To sum up:
1). The cosmos is a gigantic fly-wheel making 10,000 revolutions per minute.
2). Man is a sick fly taking a dizzy ride on it.
3). Religion is the theory that the wheel was designed and set spinning to give him the ride."
H. L. Mencken
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"If God chose George Bus of all the people in the world, how good could God be?"
Bill Maher |
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