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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2003 : 10:46:44
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John 8: 42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
I'm not ignorantly going to claim there isn't any evidence for evolution. There is a lot. Afterall what better way would there be for Satan to convince us there is no God or divine creation?
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Edited by - On fire for Christ on 11/02/2003 10:47:10
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2003 : 12:34:52 [Permalink]
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Once you indulge in the a priori denial that the physical evidence of the history of the Earth and its lifeforms- everything from the existence and arrangment of fossils to the stratigraphic column to the distribution of radioactive elements and their decay products in rocks to the record left by changes in our magnetic field to our observations of genetics and selection in action... could be the product of natural processes operating in consistent ways, which is implicit in your post, all chance of vetting hypotheses about what all that evidence means is flat out the window.
In that spirit, one can just as properly argue that it was all put there by God, or Tu-Cha-Pai, or Pan-Gu, or Brahma, and that It clearly intended us to find all these things and construct our own knowledge by relating them to each other and drawing logical inferences- and that therefore fundies who insist on denying Its record and clinging to a peculiar modern interpretation of an awkwardly translated anthology of the myths of a small lot of genocidal desert dwellers will be going straight to Hell for their unforgivable presumption.
I can't see anything about keeping our eyes open and trying to build up the best picture of history that we can based on available data that is inherently inimical to a belief in a Supreme Being, and neither can most varieties of organized belief. It's only a particular claque of bigots that are terrified that if rationality is allowed to intrude on the creation myth of the ancient Israelites their precious belief system will come crashing down.
Frankly, based on the behavior that belief system routinely inspires, I can't think of anything that more richly deserves demolition.
Here's a hint: stop telling God what to do and [i]stop wielding "He died for you" as if it means "He died and left us Boss"{/i] |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 15:41:23 [Permalink]
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Sigh... not another one...
quote:
I'm not ignorantly going to claim there isn't any evidence for evolution. There is a lot. Afterall what better way would there be for Satan to convince us there is no God or divine creation?
Are you implying that Satan created the carbon we use for carbondating, that Satan created the strata in which he planted fossiles of dinosaurs, that Satan moved the stars away from the sphere out to a billion lightyears away? Are you implying that Satan was the one who changed the solar system so that the sun and the planets stopped orbiting Earth, and instead started orbiting the sun?
If you are so afraid that any kind of knowledge is spawned from Satan, why don't you join the Amish? They live their life far removed from knowledge, as any good christian should.
Maxwell and Marconi traded their souls with Satan to gain knowledge of electromagnetism and radiowaves. By listening to the radio or tv, or using the internet, you are using devices spawned by Satan. You should not use them, because everything that comes from Satan is inheritly Evil. So by using technology, you are condemning your sacred soul to hell.
quote:
I'm not ignorantly going to claim there isn't any evidence for evolution.
Then, why are you acting like it?
quote:
Afterall what better way would there be for Satan to convince us there is no God or divine creation?
Well, since you can't prove God exists why should we take your word for it?
Look, you might have caught me in a cranky mood. But you know what?
When your soul was reborn is Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit forgot to give you the skills needed to carry the Gospel to Unbelievers.
By admitting there's a shitload of evidense that support the theory of Biological Evolution, you have made the first tempting steps toward a world of scientiffic wonders you can't possibly imagine. That accomplishment makes me almost a little proud of you. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 15:44:11 [Permalink]
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| It makes me sad that so many people buy into Satan's work. I will be praying for you. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 15:45:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
It makes me sad that so many people buy into Satan's work. I will be praying for you.
Read my post again, and spend some more time contemplating its meaning. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 16:13:30 [Permalink]
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On fire for Christ wrote:quote:
I'm not ignorantly going to claim there isn't any evidence for evolution. There is a lot. Afterall what better way would there be for Satan to convince us there is no God or divine creation?
Actually, there are much better ways, since evolution denies neither God nor divine Creation. Why do you think it does? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 16:21:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Actually, there are much better ways, since evolution denies neither God nor divine Creation. Why do you think it does?
On fire for Christ's minister told him so. The fact that his minister lied to him about it never crossed O.f.f.Christ's mind. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 18:56:48 [Permalink]
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Please do me a favor, On Fire? Please don't tell a skeptic, "I'll pray for you." It's patronizing, for one thing. For another, it invalidates their views--which, believe it or not, might be just as deeply held and well-reasoned as you believe yours are.
I'm not going to try and argue with you for two reasons: one, I've had a shitty day and I'm going to take some Tylenol and lie down. Two, many people here are better at reasoning with Christians than I am.
Please try to see that you have no access to The Truth. You have A Truth that works for you, just as we all do. Mmmmmkay?
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 19:44:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
It makes me sad that so many people buy into Satan's work. I will be praying for you.
You must believe that god changes it's mind. Look it up in your bible and I believe that you will find verses that support both a god that changes it's mind and verses that say god does not. Now apply a simple rule of logic say, mutual exclusion. "god changes" vs "god is unchanging". Now, admittedly this is a very simple case, but it serves its purpose. It's a starting point for you to either get out your book on apolegetics or to try thinking.
btw. While you will be praying for us we will be thinking, considering the merits of an assertion based upon the available evidence. We have no absolute truths. You, on the other hand, have no evidence necessitating faith, "a firm belief in an assertion without evidence"
Good luck, but I suspect that your faith is too important to allow any honest inquiry. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 19:56:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
It makes me sad that so many people buy into Satan's work. I will be praying for you.
One more thing. Let us not forget that satan/hell are constructs of christian mythology. An early recognition that fear can be quite a motivator for the weak.
Good luck, but you will find that many of the individuals on this site know more about your bible and its history than you do. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 04:51:16 [Permalink]
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Hmph. I go off-line for a couple of days, and look what happens.
So ok. Please identify and define this 'Satan' and provide independent documentation and/or other evidence for it's existance.
And also, please do not pray for the atheists. Rather, devote the time to trying to help someone in some material way. Volenteering at a homeless shelter, possibly. Food in an empty belly is much healthier and a lot more satisfying than prayer.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 05:24:09 [Permalink]
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How's the saying go?....
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer".
Could change that to 10,000, or 100,000,000. What's the dif? |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2003 : 00:17:07 [Permalink]
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On fire for Christ Posted - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It makes me sad that so many people buy into Satan's work. I will be praying for you.
On fire: Look don't get me wrong here. I am a full creationist. But what you are displaying is exactly whats wrong with christianity today. Automaticly assuming that your right, and treating full grown adults like there children with silly idea's in there puny little minds. A condisending half sarcastic "I'll be praying for you" is not the way t go around doing things.
Before anyone else jumps on me, I would like to admit to doing the same thing at times. Treating my idea's as far better than yours. I will try to stop doing that.
Dave W. wrote:
Actually, there are much better ways, since evolution denies neither God nor divine Creation. Why do you think it does?
While I disagree with the way onfire is doing it I do still agree with many things he says. Even though evolution does not directly say tere is no god. It wouold certainly take away the god I believe in. If there is an omnipitent god who can do whatever he wants why would he create it in such a way as to leave it to so much chance, when he could just snap his "fingers", and and create a man. If it is even possible for god to make the slightest mistake then he is not god. So though it doesn't state it directly, evolutiion go's against god and divine creation.
And no I believe that one because my minister told me that as Dr.Mabuse said . I actually came up with this one myself thank you. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2003 : 04:25:52 [Permalink]
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C'88 my friend, I hate to do this to you. Here is some of Oolon Coluphid's, 'God's greatest Mistakes':
http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm
quote:
The human spine. Bipedal vertebrates usually carry much of the spine roughly horizontal, and balance it with a tail. Equally, a string of cotton reels with spongy cushions between is a good cantilever bridge type design for flexible quadrupedal running. But it's a lousy thing to stand on its end and withstand the compression strains of vertical bipedalism. Compression strains are best absorbed by pillars. If you want the pillars to be flexible, you put joints in them. In biology, we have examples called 'legs'.
And why thread so important a feature as the spinal cord through the middle of this, where disc damage can cause anything from pain to paralysis?
The spine's 'design' thus results in back pain which causes over 149 million annual days off work in the U.S. alone, costing $50 to $100 billion in lost wages and medical costs, 80% of people being affected by back pain at some point in their lives, backache during pregnancy (extra weight pulling in an out-and-down direction it can't happily support), and why you find, if you've ever 'slipped' (herniated) a disc, that about the only comfortable position is on all fours.
As bipeds go, we are not at all well desined. we are left-overs, adapted from something else, a quadruped. To see a properly designed biped, check out a chicken.
I myself have had no less than two spinal fusions and live with a lot of pain (and Limbaugh won't share!  ).
The list in an excellent read, and verifiable to anyone who wants to look it up. It is also a work in process.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2003 : 04:55:40 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
While I disagree with the way onfire is doing it I do still agree with many things he says. Even though evolution does not directly say tere is no god. It wouold certainly take away the god I believe in. If there is an omnipitent god who can do whatever he wants why would he create it in such a way as to leave it to so much chance, when he could just snap his "fingers", and and create a man. If it is even possible for god to make the slightest mistake then he is not god. So though it doesn't state it directly, evolutiion go's against god and divine creation.
Well, okay, but let me state some premises about God:
1) God is omnipotent,
2) God knows the future - the entire future of everything,
3) God is ineffable.
If the above three things are true, then one can (can) reasonably conclude that God could set up conditions such that the first cells, given four billion years of evolution, would result in human beings. God knew it would happen that way, so nothing was left to 'chance'. Why He chose not to just snap His "fingers" and create us is not something that we mere mortals were not meant to know. It's all a part of God's plan.
Alternatively, one could conclude that God created the very first cells, and every few hundred thousand years He came along and "tweaked" some creature's DNA just right to ensure man's eventual creation. Again, why He might do things that way isn't something which we are privvy to.
The above two possibilities are examples of "theistic evolution." The only thing they "deny" about the Bible is the ability to read it literally, where "day" means "24 hours," and where Adam was created directly from dust.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2003 : 17:55:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
A condisending half sarcastic "I'll be praying for you" is not the way t go around doing things.
Well, C88... Your track record isn't the best either. You lied to us. Then you didn't even bother to cover it up.
quote:
Before anyone else jumps on me, I would like to admit to doing the same thing at times. Treating my idea's as far better than yours. I will try to stop doing that.
To start with, why don't you both take upon yourself to learn something about what science is, and what biological evolution is all about before you start fishing Answers In Genesis' and Kent Hovind's web-sites for irrelevant quotes?
I mean, some of the things you, C88, posted was refuted long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it was refuted even before you were born. Why that stuff ended up on the web anyway, well your guess is almost as good as mine.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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