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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2004 : 03:29:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
So fossils haven't changed at all in 400 million years? So did fossiliztion evolve overtime too as Mother (hen)/ Nature improved everything. So by faith what? You have to have more faith in Darwin than I do in God.
I don't understand this vapor trail that I am playing dodge the question with you all the time? I've looked at everything and tried to answer it to the best of my ability!
Someone asked where Noah built his ark? He built it in the antedeluvian world and the bible says out of Gopher wood and pitch. A male and female of all the mammals and birds came on it to propagate after the flood! The bible says that water came from inside the earth and from above! That would explain the fact the earth is 70% water. How do we not know the ancients lived in parts now covered in water. Maybe they got buried under the sea!
Yeah, the Bible said it so it's the truth, no matter what.
First of all there is not enough water above, on or below ground to cover the entire planet. Secondly, that story is a fictional story, a tale. The factual errors in that story are so many it's ridiculous. It's not possible to believe it if you read it. Earth is not 70% water, it's more like 70% of the surface is covered by water. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
| Edited by - Maverick on 05/26/2004 03:31:28 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 05:13:30 [Permalink]
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Friends, we have so been had!
A while ago, I went back over this whole, tedious thread and after giving it some thought, came to realize that verlch has been playing us like a Stradivarius violifiddle. A fine parcel of skeptics we are! Phooey!
I don't think he's a confused, fundie creationist at all. I think that he can probably recite whole chapters of Origins of Species just off the top of his head and he knows his way around Talk Origins better than we do.
In short, we have been trolled to a fare-thee-well! Damn, but he's good!
Consider: verlch came busting in here with a lengthy post filled with outrageous claims mixed with gibberish -- the tastiest skeptic bait there is. We all went scuttling away to our references and composed carefully thought-out answers, but look; he's vanished!
Then I accuse him of hit'n runism, and he returns in a flash with yet more barely intelligible nonsense. And disappears again, only to pop up with yet more a little later. By this time, he's starting to give us a few links to goofy websites, sweetening the pot. And so forth for sixteen -- now seventeen -- freakin' pages! I have noticed that toward the middle and latter part of those pages, some pretty good writing would peek through. I guess it's hard to maintain the sort of facade he's taken on for 24/7.
It's been a slow con all the way and we got taken like Pat Robertson takes the 700 Club grannies.
Verlch, I gotta hand it to ya, bro. The only thing you did wrong was to spring it on us after April First. If you'd done it then, or waited ‘till next Fool's Day, it would have been perfect!
Now I'm wondering if we've met before, somewhere ‘round the Web. Oolon, is that you? I know what your sense of humor's like.
Surely not you, WinAce..........
Joe Meert? Glenn Morton? Has Dr. GH, peez, Mr. Darwin, or Jet Black paid us a surreptitious visit?
Dave W? :suspicious scowl:
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/26/2004 05:14:43 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 06:30:37 [Permalink]
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filthy wrote:quote:
Dave W? :suspicious scowl:
No, not me. I've got a large distate for sock-puppets, and wouldn't use one myself (except as a quick joke in chat, for I am the Clone Arranger). There are better ways to make Devil's Advocate-type points. There are also better ways to try to work skeptics into a froth.
Actually, I'm skeptical of this latest hypothesis, filthy. While verlch may be highly experienced at this sort of thing (reference his appearance here a year ago), I don't think he's anything more than a run-of-the-mill creationist. He's now resorting to using the Bible as "evidence" (of what, I can't say), which is basically just witnessing.
If he's getting his rocks off on this stuff, he's got a very poor sense of humor, in my opinion. There's nothing original in his stuff, unlike WinAce's wonderful Irreducible Grotesqueness. And, it just doesn't seem funny. When a parody is completely indistinguishable from the real thing, it ceases to be a parody (reference one of the last chapters in Randi's Flim-Flam!, in which he relates a story of a guy who set out to fool scientists with fake psychic powers, but came to believe in those powers himself). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 06:39:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Well lady I think that comment is rather mean spirited! That's like me saying your prosible witchcraft 101 teachers and students, all worship the devil. Sure they sit around a pentagram speaking to the dead, but are they really worshiping a goat or what? Then they talk to wood, and get a dial moved around, who's to say that's a wicked establishment? What's your sign baby, are you a saggitaris or another star group? I was born in on the 19th of March, I don't think star girl and I are compatible! Too bad! What do you think there hotstuff?
WTF?!? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 06:54:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
filthy wrote:quote:
Dave W? :suspicious scowl:
No, not me. I've got a large distate for sock-puppets, and wouldn't use one myself (except as a quick joke in chat, for I am the Clone Arranger). There are better ways to make Devil's Advocate-type points. There are also better ways to try to work skeptics into a froth.
Actually, I'm skeptical of this latest hypothesis, filthy. While verlch may be highly experienced at this sort of thing (reference his appearance here a year ago), I don't think he's anything more than a run-of-the-mill creationist. He's now resorting to using the Bible as "evidence" (of what, I can't say), which is basically just witnessing.
If he's getting his rocks off on this stuff, he's got a very poor sense of humor, in my opinion. There's nothing original in his stuff, unlike WinAce's wonderful Irreducible Grotesqueness. And, it just doesn't seem funny. When a parody is completely indistinguishable from the real thing, it ceases to be a parody (reference one of the last chapters in Randi's Flim-Flam!, in which he relates a story of a guy who set out to fool scientists with fake psychic powers, but came to believe in those powers himself).
Ok, I've learned that I can safely take you at your word. You are not the culpret.
But look, nobody can be as dense as velrlch appears and still find his way to the bathroom for a midnight emergency. A sock or a highly skilled troll seems more and more to be the logical answer. I've noticed that in a couple other threads, he used the same technique: blast out a series of completely unsupported statments, give a brief rant on the Bible, and when called on it, rants off on something else. And like vengful lemmings on crank, we follow him. On his end of the line, it's a laff a minute.
I wish I could do it.
Shall I continue to be a vengful lemming on crank? I dunno. There might still be some fun in it. We'll see.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 07:06:44 [Permalink]
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| either way, I don't see the point in arguing with this guy. But you all know how I feel... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 07:06:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Well lady I think that comment is rather mean spirited! That's like me saying your prosible witchcraft 101 teachers and students, all worship the devil. Sure they sit around a pentagram speaking to the dead, but are they really worshiping a goat or what? Then they talk to wood, and get a dial moved around, who's to say that's a wicked establishment? What's your sign baby, are you a saggitaris or another star group? I was born in on the 19th of March, I don't think star girl and I are compatible! Too bad! What do you think there hotstuff?
WTF?!?
Yeah, what the fuck indeed. I was going to refrain comment on that bit of ad hom, but it appears that verlch, with nothing to support his blather, is becoming abusive. It is of course, uncalled for and is typical behavior of people with nothing to say but determined say it anyway. Or trolls trying to keep the gag going.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 08:25:22 [Permalink]
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| I just don't see, filthy, where the laugh-a-minute is coming from, unless he is so dense as to not be able to make the bathroom. Surely even Family Circle is funnier than this thread, no? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 08:38:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Yeah, what the fuck indeed. I was going to refrain comment on that bit of ad hom, but it appears that verlch, with nothing to support his blather, is becoming abusive. It is of course, uncalled for and is typical behavior of people with nothing to say but determined say it anyway. Or trolls trying to keep the gag going.
[/quote]
I was less concerned about the fact that it was an attack, but that is made no sense at all. Really-- even a little punctuation would help! Very distressing.
I, too, am starting to wonder about the troll thing. Perhaps not for laughs, but just for whatever thrill comes in agitating secular-humanists. Maybe... |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 10:32:22 [Permalink]
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Oh knock it off guys....If you want to dual lets dual, guns or swords what'll it be! Let's settle this arguement the old-fashion way!
Oh so i'm some troll because I'm not an evolutionist? Is that the game you play?
Rushing to the defense of the lady are we? What is she your next girlfriend or something? Come on!
I have raised some interesting points. Last night I saw a show on Methusla tree. The 'Bristle Coned Pine', standing gloriously in Neveda! It was ok for Nova to speculate that humans could have eternal life without God if they studied the tree!? (And I'm off my rocker when I make my assertions) They showed that the tree was 4,500 years old, this fits perfectly with humanity and the flood, when it was born. They showed how a seedling uses the sun and water. How the tree divides its cells and eats sugar and goes every so slowly into a testiment in time!
Now I propose WTH (heck) are there not any 'Bristle Coned Pines' fossilized and petrified. What if they lived 4,000 years and fossilized themselves?
Big Pine
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Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest. 25 miles north of Big Pine. Difficult to get to in the winter. From Highway 395, take Highway 168 for about 15 miles to White Mountain Road, turn left and continue for 10 more miles to the south end of the forest. 619-873-2400.
Here is a place where the rubber meets the road! This would be a nice place to check out the age of an 'ancient' forest!
quote:
Did the dinosaurs disappear millions of years ago? This fish, called a coelacanth, is said to have lived before the dinosaurs and was found alive off South Africa in 1938. Since then hundreds of coelacanths have been sighted.
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The Great Barrier Reef has been estimated to be 4,200 years old. No living thing is older than about 5,000 years, which is consistent with life forms beginning after the time of Noah's worldwide flood.
Could reefs be my newest studying material! Since they grow so slowly!
Hmmm imagine the possibilites, reefs that have only aged to a certain point! Right with the Scripture!
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Picture shows ice cores obtained from deep ice formations. Rings in ice cores are not annual rings and have mistakenly been used to calculate an old age for the Earth.
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Clams are found at the top of Mount Everest (29,035 ft.), evidence that it must have been underwater at some point. Provides evidence of a catastrophic worldwide flood. Every major mountain range on Earth contains fossilized sea life—far above sea level.
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The erosion rate of Niagara Falls is about 3.5 feet per year. Its 7-mile gorge indicates an age of only a few thousand years.
I suppose I could say to that one, "How do we know it erodes at 3.5 feet per year, and do we always know that it was rock or dirt?" In reference to the 3.82 cen. the moon goes backwards, and the fact that some tell me it wasn't always traveling backwards. Is that fair? Or no? -V
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Stalactites grow at variable rates and do not take hundreds of thousands, nor millions, of years to form—Marakoopa Cave, Tasmania shown here.
Impact No. 79 Origin of Limestone Caves, Steven A. Austin, Ph.D., Institute for Creation Research,
El Cajon, CA. 1980
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Did Noah's Flood cause the extinction of woolly mammoths and dinosaurs? Fossilized remains of extinct woolly mammoths indicate these animals met their demise suddenly, some being found with food still in their stomachs. Dwarf-sized wooly mammoths existed in Siberia as late as 3,700 years ago, contiguous with the era of the Egyptian pyramids.
quote:
1942 - WWII aircraft land in Greenland and are abandoned. Retrieved in 1992 263 feet under surface. Proof that ice rings are not annual layers.
http://creationposter.com/sdm.asp?pg=evidence&specific=ea
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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| Edited by - verlch on 05/26/2004 11:17:43 |
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thecor
New Member
Italy
27 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 10:46:07 [Permalink]
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I have only been on this site for a few days, and as I have commented to Filthy in private msg, I think Verlch has recieved much attention from his "rantings" and this could very well be the goal. I gather that Verlch has been here for over a year and has pulled everyone's chain at least once and I commend (and agree with) Filthy in his analysis. I would seriously doubt that Verlch would keep you all "going" for 12 months and 17 pages without a serious motive. The evangelists that I have known do not put this much effort into winning souls. What you refer to as "trolls" sounds interesting until you consider the abusivness cited by Cuneiformist. BUT, immature people will continue to act accordingly to continue receiving the attention that Verlch has garnered from this forum.
Hats off to Filthy! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 10:48:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Oh knock it off guys....If you want to dual lets dual, guns or swords what'll it be! Let's settle this arguement the old-fashion way!
Oh so i'm some troll because I'm not an evolutionist? Is that the game you play?
Hi velrch. I'll assume that you just aren't familiar with internet forum terminology and thus fill you in (as best as i can). A 'troll' is a term used to describe that person who comes to forums and posts in such a ways so as to generate a large reaction out of forum regulars-- much like one trolls for fish. This is usually accomplished by posting things antithetical to the forum, insulting people, and so on. A typical example might be to go to, say, a Star Wars forum and begin a thread trashing the movies and arguing how much better Star Trek is. Predictably, legions of Star Wars fans would them post to the thread defending their favorite film, all to the glee of the original poster. Why some people find such joy in getting a rise out of people is unclear, but it happens.
Verlch added: quote:
I have raised some interesting points.
This is the problem, and why some are now suspecting that you are a troll (and we are all suckers). Yes, velrch, you have raised interesting points. However, the rest of us here have time and again shown why they are wrong, be it through a challenge to the facts you use, a critique of the sources you cite, or an exposure of flaws in your logic. And yet each time, you ignore what we say and continue repeating the same things over and over again.
Yet here we are, discussing trees again.
As much as I hate to say it, perhaps it's time to close this thread. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 11:19:53 [Permalink]
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What you refer to as "trolls" sounds interesting until you consider the abusivness cited by Cuneiformist.
So what are we the Politically Correct Police now, as well as evolutionist! I have been as sassy as anyone here, but I guess only you can be sassy and creationists have to zip the lip! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 11:24:02 [Permalink]
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The evangelists that I have known do not put this much effort into winning souls.
I'm not trying to win souls, I am debating information. I could care less about your 'souls'. Your souls are none of my business. I am simply debating something that I consider a fairy tale, nothing less. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 11:36:06 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
They showed that the tree was 4,500 years old, this fits perfectly with humanity and the flood, when it was born.
No, it doesn't. Simple math shows that Methusela was already hundreds of years old when the alleged Flood occured, showing that the Flood did not kill everything. And if trees were exempted, why aren't there hundreds, thousands, or even millions of 4,500+ year-old trees to be found?
And why is it that you think that the age of Niagara Falls has anything to do with the age of the Earth? Must the two be the same?
Also, the idea that the Flood killed off the mammoths and dinosaurs is contrary to what the Bible says - those web sites must be inspired by Satan. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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