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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2004 :  20:57:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
Filthy why don't you carbon date yourself and find out how much error there is with carbon dating/fiction.

My computer is funked out and I had a great post for you guys and couldn't fiqure out why it didn't work!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2004 :  21:09:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
And what forest did he clear-cut to get the lumber for all of this?

It was said it was made of Gopher wood and pitch.

Can you falsify the described progression in Human Evolution?


Because I can attest to none of it except scientific theories....

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2004 :  21:17:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
verlch wrote:
quote:
Filthy why don't you carbon date yourself and find out how much error there is with carbon dating/fiction.
Apparently, you're unaware of how this "science" stuff works. There is a huge consensus regarding the validity of carbon dating for organic objects less than 50,000 or so years old, and known problems with the method whereby "old carbon" can get introduced into a young organism. The people who agree about these things compete for money, and so they should - if there were anything wrong with carbon dating - disagree about it so that they'd become well-known and more likely to receive funding.

But they don't disagree, which says very strongly that there's nothing to disagree about. Fraudulent claims don't garner long-term research dollars.

Of course, errors in carbon dating don't count against the errors in other forms of radio-isotope dating, which are different in their assumptions, methodologies and applicable age ranges from radiocarbon dating. They all agree that the Earth is very old, indeed. Pointing the finger at carbon dating doesn't eliminate all the other evidence of an ancient Earth.
quote:
My computer is funked out and I had a great post for you guys and couldn't fiqure out why it didn't work!
With those great posts, the ones I know I would want to keep around in a separate archive, I write them up in Notepad, and then copy-and-paste them into the reply window. That way, I can save 'em to my hard drive, as well, just in case the post doesn't work the first time.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to support any of your 43 premises. Well, 44 now that you've claimed that carbon dating is fiction.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2004 :  21:19:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
Rather than argue against the conclusions verlch draws from these premises, I suggest we all wait until verlch can support the premises themselves with sufficient evidence such that it would be unreasonable to think them false. I understand that all previous requests for such support have gone unanswered, but I don't think verlch understands that his/her assertions are not, in fact, the undeniable truths he/she thinks they are. Until we can agree on the premises, no meaningful discussion will take place.


His thank you....

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2004 :  21:21:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
verlch wrote:
quote:
His thank you....
Okay, 45 unsupported asserti... I'm just kidding. Thanks.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2004 :  16:58:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
You request proof, I requst faith.

Just because you carbon dated the earth doesn't mean anything. How do you know how God made it? And from what material? How do you explain away granite and how it came into being, certainly if scientist have all the answeres they should be able to replicate it and tell us how a simple musturd seed springs into life!


What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2004 :  17:04:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

Dave, all I do is ask these guys for evidence. I don't even argue with them. I just ask for sources. Anything! I lost my patients with unsupported creationist claims long ago. I'm with you. As a skeptic, I think asking for evidence is the only way to deal with their extraordinary claims...

edited for spelling.





What my unsupported claims, you fellas have a laundry list a mile long!!! You have to explain to me how a elephant goes back to a mammouth and from a mammouth to a fish???? How does that work guys?

I can give you human from monkey but monkey from what? Again? I lost the sniff of reality after monkey!!! That would make us human beings from chaos! Has a nice ring, chaos, cosmic accident!!!!


Like I said before with your pluthera of evidence from the fossil record you should be able to so me millions and billions of intermediary fossils!!! Since you have proved so blatantly that fossilization happens so easily! The whole whale in the deep ocean story!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2004 :  18:20:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Hm. I haven't read much on elephants, I admit. However, I sugggest that you look up horse and whale evolution. The intermediates are well documented. Talk Orgins and other sites have a lot on them.

I am not going to do it for you this time. It doesn't seem to be worth the effort, as I and others have already given you a lot of information that you've apparently ignored.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but faith has yet to change fact.

Again I ask; who, when, and what organization did the dating on the "2,000 year old" fossil trees?

Edited to add that snide remarks don't work on me. Do try to reply without the semi-ad hominim. It makes you look like you have little to say.

quote:
Filthy why don't you carbon date yourself and find out how much error there is with carbon dating/fiction.



"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 05/06/2004 18:25:54
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2004 :  19:43:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

Hm. I haven't read much on elephants, I admit. However, I sugggest that you look up horse and whale evolution. The intermediates are well documented. Talk Orgins and other sites have a lot on them.

I am not going to do it for you this time. It doesn't seem to be worth the effort, as I and others have already given you a lot of information that you've apparently ignored.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but faith has yet to change fact.

Again I ask; who, when, and what organization did the dating on the "2,000 year old" fossil trees?

Edited to add that snide remarks don't work on me. Do try to reply without the semi-ad hominim. It makes you look like you have little to say.

quote:
Filthy why don't you carbon date yourself and find out how much error there is with carbon dating/fiction.







I don't care about what you say as intermediates, you need to show the world the timeline from fish to whale, or elephant. Not this human monkey than it stops or elephant mammoth then it stops. You need to detail the whole entire time line and find lots of evidence to support your theroies....




What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
Edited by - verlch on 05/06/2004 20:29:53
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13476 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2004 :  20:59:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
verlch:
I don't care about what you say as intermediates, you need to show the world the timeline from fish to whale, or elephant. Not this human monkey than it stops or elephant mammoth then it stops. You need to detail the whole entire time line and find lots of evidence to support your theroies....


You will not accept or even look at anything offered to you as evidence. You do no research and you make wild claims without backing any of those claims up. Frankly, you arnt worth the time I am taking to write this post...


edited for spelling, sigh...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2004 :  21:50:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
verlch wrote:
quote:
Just because you carbon dated the earth doesn't mean anything.
Nobody has carbon-dated the Earth. The idea is ludicrous.
quote:
How do you know how God made it?
You are claiming that you know how God made it. Hypocrite! Take the log out of your own eye before you try to take the splinter from mine.
quote:
And from what material?
Who said anything about that?
quote:
How do you explain away granite and how it came into being, certainly if scientist have all the answeres they should be able to replicate it and tell us how a simple musturd seed springs into life!
These are precisely the kinds of claims I am talking about. You have just claimed that scientists cannot explain either granite nor mustard seeds springing to life. Where is the evidence that scientists cannot explain either one? Your lack of knowledge is not the same as a scientist's lack of knowledge. Your ignorance is not contagious.

The fact is, real scientists will accept "I don't know" as a tentative answer. You will not, and demand answers which may not be available today. Scientists court mystery, you abhor it, and instead scream for easy answers to complex questions. As already noted, you have refused to support a single assertion you have made, and refuse to examine evidence which might contradict your prejudice.

You are, in other words, a know-it-all bigot, and not a proper Christian at all.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2004 :  07:01:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message


You are, in other words, a know-it-all bigot, and not a proper Christian at all.
[/quote]

What's that all about? Because I don't believe in your fantasy I am a know-it-all bigot? Shall we burn me at the stake boys for not believing that the earth is flat? Or that the Sun revoles around the earth.....Hey maybe you can burn my bible too.

I never heard of anybody burning 'The Origin Of Species'!!!

I like how you spend minutes mocking me about how much water it would take to fill up the earth. The earth is 70 % water right now!!! I think God could rearrange the earth and make the whole face of the deep covered in water.

I am really interested in seeing this Super Fish in action!!!!! And I am really fired up to follow the fossil record as this 'Super Fish' morphes from one form to another!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2004 :  07:12:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

quote:
verlch:
I don't care about what you say as intermediates, you need to show the world the timeline from fish to whale, or elephant. Not this human monkey than it stops or elephant mammoth then it stops. You need to detail the whole entire time line and find lots of evidence to support your theroies....


You will not except or even look at anything offered to you as evidence. You do no research and you make wild claims without backing any of those claims up. Frankly, you arnt worth the time I am taking to write this post...




What evidence...You look and read something that says 600 million years ago....and I'm supposed to call that proof? I give you proof of a maker by looking at yourself and how complicated you are. Period, how can something as complicated as a human being, be made from chance? All of the organs, all of the bones, tissue veins and blood!!! What set the boundries in the human body? And made it function with complexity, how can it come from microsopic size from two cells and turn into a living breathing human entity, full of purpose!!!

What is death? The penalty of sin is death.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2004 :  07:18:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
I am really interested in seeing this Super Fish in action!!!!! And I am really fired up to follow the fossil record as this 'Super Fish' morphes from one form to another!


The how 'bout you drag your confused ass down to the public library and do some study on biology. Or geology. Or any old 'ology at all! Or do words in coherent sequence put you off?

Damn! now I'm doing it. And I hate ad hom.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2004 :  07:56:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

What evidence...You look and read something that says 600 million years ago....and I'm supposed to call that proof? I give you proof of a maker by looking at yourself and how complicated you are. Period, how can something as complicated as a human being, be made from chance? All of the organs, all of the bones, tissue veins and blood!!! What set the boundries in the human body? And made it function with complexity, how can it come from microsopic size from two cells and turn into a living breathing human entity, full of purpose!!!



If I might jump in here-- Verlch (BTW, can I loan you a vowel?), what you've written above is what Richard Dawkins called, I believe, the 'Argument from Personal Incredulity.' That is, you seem to be supporting your claim that your god has to have created humans because you have a hard time grasping how it could have happened any other way.

Now, to return to the discussion: it seems like the arguments here have been quite scattered and it is hard to find what issues, if any, have been resolved. I wonder if it might be productive-- I know, I know-- if perhaps Verlch (since he started the thread) might begin by making one or two assertions. This might be about the flood, or trees, or whatever else. He should support his claims with evidence (e.g. published works, referenced facts, appeals to logic, etc.) that people could check. Then, those who disagree (which seems to be about everyone else) could have a chance to respond to the claims in the affirmative or negative with whatever evidence applies. Verlch could either counter or concede. This would go on until the original issue (the flood, trees, or whatever) was resolved. Then a new issue (fruit flies, or carbon dating, ect.) could be brought up.

I understand that the above proposal might sound silly, but it seems to me that it would be at least slightly less silly than the current "What about this? Well that's nothing-- what about that?" bit. Or perhaps not...
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The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


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