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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
 Posted - 06/20/2004 : 11:12:07
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Here's a real 'heavyweight' for yas, try ten BILLION solar masses !!! And to boot, this hole in the universe forms within one billion years of the BB itself. Tinking about something like this, really curls me hair. Just feel that we don't really have the orgin of the universe, completely nailed as yet... 
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0406/18blackhole/
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
 Posted - 06/28/2004 : 11:04:11 [Permalink]
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Due to popular demand, am suppling more information on this "blazar" anyway... "The black hole, researchers said, is big enough to hold 1,000 of our own Solar Systems and weighs about as much as all the stars in the Milky Way."
"The universe was awfully young at the time this was formed," said astronomer Roger Romani, a Stanford University associate professor whose team found the object. "It's a bit of a challenge to understand how this black hole got enough mass to reach its size."
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/heavy_blazar_040628.html |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 23:09:54 [Permalink]
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Oh yeah, so is yer momma!!! Well, let's try to cool off this 'flame war.' Didn't mean to set off a riot with me posts...
"Up until now, we assumed that galaxies were just beginning to form between 8 and 11 billion years ago, but what we found suggests that that is not the case," said Karl Glazebrook, associate professor of physics and astronomy in the Krieger School of Arts and Sciences at The Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and co-principal author of a paper in the July 8 issue of Nature. "It seems that an unexpectedly large fraction of stars in big galaxies were already in place early in the universe's formation, and that challenges what we've believed. We thought massive galaxies came much later."
Ahh.., validation of sorts, tis sweet. 
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14524 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2004 : 19:01:29 [Permalink]
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I, personally, just don't know enough about this particular topic to respond with even faked intelligence. It is interesting though, and I did read the linked articles  |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 21:04:06 [Permalink]
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| I read that Hawking is going to release a revision on his theories about black holes sometime in the near future. Changing a substantial portion of his old theories... |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 03:30:40 [Permalink]
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It's all really very simple; no mystery at all. God did it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 07:59:02 [Permalink]
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Ricky wrote:quote:
Hawking once said that nothing can escape a black hole. He is now changing that, I'm not exactly sure on how stuff escapes a black hole, but he is saying that it can.
Actually, Hawking was originally in the camp of people who claimed that no information can escape a black hole, once it goes in. In other words, toss a phone book into a hole, and you simply cannot reconstruct any of the data within the book.
A peer of his finally convinced Hawking that information can come out of a black hole, in the radiation jets at the poles. If you can figure out how to "decode" the jets, you can reconstruct the data within the phone book by looking at the black hole.
They had a bet about this for seven years or so. Hawking's admission means he's got to pay up. The bet was for a baseball encyclopedia. Hawking tried to hand over a cricket encyclopedia. Other guy said, "no way."
Hawking, as far as I can remember, has been a proponent of black hole evaporation for many years. I recall first reading about it in A Brief History of Time. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 10:26:11 [Permalink]
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"Information," Ricky, is abstract. You can record information using matter, but ideas are also information.
Actually, the relative positions of various molecules of ink and paper within the phone book are information, also. That's gotta be the sort of information you'd be able to retrieve from a black hole. It'd allow you to rebuild a phone book atom-by-atom. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 20:06:56 [Permalink]
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Well, it's "information" if it means something to those looking at it. Take the X, Y and Z coordinates of all the atoms in a goblet, and write them down as a series of numbers. Hand it to a stranger, and it will be meaningless to them.
Do you feel that "beauty" is a meaningless word, since it too is subjective and thus could conceivably be applied to everything? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 06:14:58 [Permalink]
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Not only was he a proponent of evaporation, but they named it after him, Hawking Radiation, that is, without new material added a black hole will eventually evaporate its energy as radiation.
My question is what happens when it evaporates enough matter/energy so that it loses its black hole status and no longer traps light. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 12:16:58 [Permalink]
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In the case of Hawking and black holes, what he means by "information" (I think), is this:
His previous contention was that once matter/energy passed the event horizon you could not extract any information that would let you describe the contents of the black hole. So, basically, you can't extract a description of what the black hole ate 25 million years ago. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2004 : 13:23:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> It's all really very simple; no mystery at all. God did it.
Where is the fun in that?
quote:
I read that Hawking is going to release a revision on his theories about black holes sometime in the near future. Changing a substantial portion of his old theories...
Hawking once said that nothing can escape a black hole. He is now changing that, I'm not exactly sure on how stuff escapes a black hole, but he is saying that it can. This can cause black holes to "evaporate", since they can loose mass until they are gone.
I thought the gist of it was that Hawking postulated that the matter which fell into a black hole may be ballooning into another universe. His modification merely says that he no longer believes that to be possible. That all matter that is absorbed into a black hole during feeding is held within the black hole until emitted through Hawking radiation or decompression explosion.
Also, Hawking said that black holes evaporate only until the mass required to make them such a super dense object is no longer present. Then, they explode with the force of 10 million MT. (By way of comparison, the sun emits 100 billion (100 thousand million) MT of force.)
The evaporation time for a black hole that is 10 to the 11th power kg (roughly the mass of a small moutian) is about 3 billion (3 thousand million) years. A one solar mass black hole which has not fed since the beginning of the universe would take, from the evaporation calculations, 10 to the 67th power years. (Or a friggin long time considering that the universe is only in the 10 to the 11th power years old range.)
http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/hawk.html
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 07/29/2004 13:27:35 |
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