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 Orion Science Center - More Creationist Drivel?
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2004 :  12:22:25  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
The in-laws retired to the Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri, and every summer we haul the family down for a week at the lake. The mother in law sends us an e-mail, says next time you visit, let's go here:

http://www.orioncenter.org/

So I poke around their site to see what they have there, and the first thing I find is that the first book listed under their Media section is "The Stones Still Shout" by Dr. Clifford Wilson, the book being touted:

quote:
A few of the chapters include topics on Creation, The flood, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, David, Babylon's glory and decline, The Dead Sea Scrolls, and a whole lot more!


It didn't take long to find that Cliff Wilson is a bona fide creationist woo-woo:

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-046.htm

Futher looking aound the Orion Center site revealed succh gems as:

quote:
Building Noah's Ark
That's what it feels like at times trying to create a science center in rural Missouri. As in Noah's day, many in Noah's community continued about their business oblivious to the work taking place.. As in Noah's day, there is an urgent need for the thing being built ... a need that was largely unrecognized by Noah's neighbors. And as in Noah's day, we persevere regardless.


and:

quote:
Suppose for example that you didn't assume the speed of light to be an eternal constant. Some scientists have theorized that the speed of light was much faster in the past, which would allow light from distant objects to reach earth in much less time. Such an observer would not think he was looking into the distant past when observing a very distant object


I don't know whether to actually visit this "science" center and use it as a learning experience for the kids about bad, dishonest "science", or to just say no, and not give them the $20 it would take to get the family in.

It just pisse me off when people dress up their voodoo and call it science. If they wanted to open a bible camp, why not just do it, instead of masquerading as a science center? Oh, here's why:

quote:
Orion Science Center is renewing its partnership with the Camdenton RIII School District through the Project Pass before/after school program. Under the terms of a new agreement, Orion Center will be providing field trip and traveling exhibit services to the district for the next four years. Funding is through a special grant and equals Orion Center's basic operating costs guaranteeing our ability to continue for the next few years.


I wonder if the local taxpayers know that they are supporing a front for religion? Or if they would care?

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2004 :  03:28:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Very sad.
quote:
We generally don't think about the fact that dinosaurs and mammals lived at the same time, but this is a widely recognized fact in paleontology. It doesn't come up frequently in science education because it undermines the idea of the different geologic time periods.
Poor kids that have to go to a school where the teachers fall for this kind of bad science.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2004 :  04:46:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Yeh. I find this ridiculous as well:

quote:
Building Noah's Ark
That's what it feels like at times trying to create a science center in rural Missouri. As in Noah's day, many in Noah's community continued about their business oblivious to the work taking place.. As in Noah's day, there is an urgent need for the thing being built ... a need that was largely unrecognized by Noah's neighbors. And as in Noah's day, we persevere regardless.


First off, creationists do no science; rather they take the works of others and twist them into what they think will make a talking point.

As for the Noah flim-flam, does this twit not realize how much manpower it would take to build a vessle the alledged size of the alledged Ark? With the technology of the day? By people who were neither engineers nor seamen?

It would require an entire shipyard -- sawpits, smithies, foundries, paint lockers (for the pitch, you know), rope-walks and all -- and I don't recall hearing of one being set up at that time.

Yeesh!


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2004 :  00:33:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2004 :  01:54:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message
Mocking creationists is not the same as mocking God.

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend

Sweden
385 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2004 :  06:47:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Maverick a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.

"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2004 :  07:24:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.


Or that denial of evolution is a salvation issue...

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2004 :  08:47:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
verlch, I have a great idea.... why don't you move to Serbia?

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2004 :  10:42:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Dude, if Verlch wants to go to a place where people are at his level of intellectual ability, I would say the moon, or maybe even mars would be the only two options.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2004 :  03:01:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

Dude, if Verlch wants to go to a place where people are at his level of intellectual ability, I would say the moon, or maybe even mars would be the only two options.



I disagree. The people who go there are far beyond his intellectual capabilities. I wouldn't be able to mention any place for him, accept were the personnel walks around in white coats.

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2004 :  07:06:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...


Which god? There seem to be so many and their followers all claim that their's is The One.......

Proof is only required with maths and whiskey, and sometimes poker, as I've told you before. However, I can come up with a lot more supporting evidence than is really needed. You've only seen the tip of that iceberg.

Further, dead is dead. Nobody wakes up. If you say otherwise, give me some sound, emperical evidence to back up the statement.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2004 :  07:32:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
verlch wrote:
quote:
Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...
Guys, the "prove god (or the afterlife) exists" stuff is old hat. Here's what's interesting about verlch's latest offering: it implies that God would change His omniscient mind if someone "proves" evolution to Him during his/her judgement. This is an astounding theology, as one would think that God already knows whether evolution occurs or not, and will simply tell people whether they got it right or not (if He cares about this at all).

I suspect that if the Christian God exists, it is verlch who's going to have some explaining to do. "Well," God will say, "I left all these clues, and the scientists put all the pieces together, but you chose to ignore all that and instead insist that your peculiar and twisted interpretation of a book I 'inspired' was correct, all the while missing the central message of that same book." [God rolls His eyes in disgust.]

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2004 :  13:11:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

You'll be happy to get revenge on us some day? That isn't very Christian of you. Shouldn't you be praying for us and saying nice things instead?
Edited by - beskeptigal on 09/10/2004 13:12:40
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2004 :  22:55:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.



Perhaps you can fiqure it out on your own. Most waste their lives, why wouldn't they waste the afterlife.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2004 :  23:23:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...


Which god? There seem to be so many and their followers all claim that their's is The One.......

Proof is only required with maths and whiskey, and sometimes poker, as I've told you before. However, I can come up with a lot more supporting evidence than is really needed. You've only seen the tip of that iceberg.

Further, dead is dead. Nobody wakes up. If you say otherwise, give me some sound, emperical evidence to back up the statement.





The God that made the Sun, the planets that orbit it. The God that made the atom and the electrons and protons that orbit it. The God that made the 200 billion stars in your galaxy, in complete order. No chaos found there my radical pal. Did you know that while I typed this I've traveled through space, over several milliion miles. Between the earths speed, suns and milway galaxy.


http://www.astrobilly.com/afacts.html

http://csc.gallaudet.edu/soarhigh/earth.html


On that last site, it states that the earth is 4.5 billion years old.

1. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Fossil records show that life
began on Earth at least 3.5 billion years ago.

Where the hell are these 3.5 billion year old fossils and why are they fully formed? If evolution is true as so many say. Whaaa?

http://www.scienceyear.com/wired/index.html?page=/wired/facts/extreme.html

Deny that my radical super novas...

http://www.marsacademy.com/amazsp/a2.htm

Hmmm gentlemen...we can try to guess what events took place at that time.


What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
Edited by - verlch on 09/23/2004 00:33:29
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2004 :  01:26:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Conveniently ignored answering me there didn't ya, Verlch?
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