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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/12/2004 : 15:07:04 [Permalink]
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Hovind is a huckster, a fraud, and an embarrassment even to other creationists. He no more holds a Doctorate than I do; his $200,000 challenge is preposterous.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/kent_hovind_page.htm
That he has any following at all is a sad commentary on the American public.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2004 : 16:36:37 [Permalink]
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Here's a site with a whole dung heap'o Hovind quotes.
Below the link is one of my favorites from Dr. Dumbass himself.
http://www.geocities.com/kenthovind/quotes/index.htm
"If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that."
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2004 : 20:10:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Not sure if anyone has seen this, I didn't watch it fully (skipped most of the beginning):
http://drdino.activeforjesus.com/debates/shermer_Large.zip
Is there a copy around with higher quality? (Size is not a problem for me... ) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 12:13:55 [Permalink]
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| I had this video already downloaded from Hovind's own website, well at least I suspect it is the same one, that is a debate with Shermer. It was actually impressive, in a bizarre sort of way, how many logical and scientific errors and argumentative fallacies and outright lies he could pack into one short debate. It was all very surreal and in a way very very sad to watch. How can a person knowingly lie like that, willingly and intentionally decieve people for a living? What kind of a person is that? Why would anyone do that? |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 18:25:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
I had this video already downloaded from Hovind's own website, well at least I suspect it is the same one, that is a debate with Shermer. It was actually impressive, in a bizarre sort of way, how many logical and scientific errors and argumentative fallacies and outright lies he could pack into one short debate. It was all very surreal and in a way very very sad to watch. How can a person knowingly lie like that, willingly and intentionally decieve people for a living? What kind of a person is that? Why would anyone do that?
The debating style is called, the "Gish Gallop," where a huge amount of bullshit is put forth in a very brief time. As the debunking takes thought, there is no time to answer very much of it. And usually, the audience is basicly fundie.
I'll bet a hunderd dollar bill aginst a bent nickle that no one will ever get Hovind in a written, on-line dabate. Even one such as I would clean his clock in that format, and he knows it.
I've got to give the devil his due; he's got a great scam.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 18:39:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
I had this video already downloaded from Hovind's own website, well at least I suspect it is the same one, that is a debate with Shermer. It was actually impressive, in a bizarre sort of way, how many logical and scientific errors and argumentative fallacies and outright lies he could pack into one short debate. It was all very surreal and in a way very very sad to watch. How can a person knowingly lie like that, willingly and intentionally decieve people for a living? What kind of a person is that? Why would anyone do that?
For the most part, along with being a cretin, Hovind is simply dillusional. Weird religious power trip, too?
Just pick most any sermon at any of the millions of churches for the similar effect. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 01:06:46 [Permalink]
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| How many scientists has he debated, and how many were in written form? Or has he denied all written online debates? It would be great if the public could really see what he is. Perhaps most people aren't so crazy so they believe him, but he does get the audience' attention, and I noticed he got the most enthusiastic applause from them. A written debate would be difficult, because how many would make themselves to read through the entire thing? How many would still see all the errors he makes? The opponent would have to use many words just to point them out. It would be rather like a missile command-like game, at one point there will be too many missiles to shoot down... |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 03:29:59 [Permalink]
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A written debate would be easy -- an on-line chatroom, properly schedualed with the 'audience' looking on but not commenting (I think there's a way to make the audience 'view only'), would do it. It's been done before. Of course, print-outs would be made available afterward.
Getting Dr? Dino into something like that will never happen. His garbage would be too easily scooped up and fed back to him with a shovel.
He has nothing beyond the gift of gab, and he knows it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 07:15:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Hovind is a huckster, a fraud, and an embarrassment even to other creationists. He no more holds a Doctorate than I do; his $200,000 challenge is preposterous.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/kent_hovind_page.htm
That he has any following at all is a sad commentary on the American public.
Agreed, I don't understand why creationists flock to this guy, High school students should know more science than Hovind.
quote:
I say, you guys have to get two cells to evolve from the [primordial] soup - of the opposite sex, in the same place, at the same time. It's a big world, you know, cells are kind of small - they've got to find each other.
Is he serious?
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Listener's letter: [.....] It is said the Sun is a burning ball of gas, in other words fire. What is the one thing that fire needs to burn? Oxygen. How come that stars continue to burn if they have no oxygen to keep them burning? [.....]
Hovind: Excellent question, Andres. I'm sorry but I don't know that I have a positive answer. [....] As far as the oxygen required, I'll have to pass on that one too and do some more study on that one. I don't know that I could prove one way or the other. I think there are different types of burning though - some do not require oxygen. Sorry about that, Andres. I'll have to do some research and check back with you on that one.
I think my 3 year old knows the answer to this!
I think alot of christians will grasp at any position that supports their claims. Many are afraid to admit that we don't have all the answers to skeptics questions. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 08:22:15 [Permalink]
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Comes down to this for me. I think public debates with creationists that are not in writing should not happen. What I mean is that "evolutionists" should stop accepting invitations to debate the subject. The acceptance of such a debate gives creation science a kind of respectability it does not deserve. What happened in the Shermer/Hovind debate is what usually happens. A very skilled debater (from an audience perspective) truancies the opposition. Gish and Hovind, as Filthy pointed out, have technique and the charisma to pull off a win and be completely wrong at the same time. Since most of these debates are in front of church groups, the science on the evolution side has little chance because the audience does not understand it. What they do understand are pithy remarks and good patter. A good laugh goes a long way to making even a bogus point seem correct. The creationist debate is done with smoke and mirrors and it works! Hovind knows he cannot compete on the level playing field of written debate. So he has turned down all comers, including us...
Of course, the debates must continue in courts and such when some school board or whole states decide that creation science is science and deserves to be heard in science classrooms.
In all other cases, the winner is not necessarily the person who is representing the facts as they are. In the end, the winner is the skilled debater and all that is really decided is who "looks" better in front of an audience...
I would freeze Hovind out. Give him no chance to do his magic. And end a debate that shouldn't be happening anyway... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 12:11:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
A written debate would be easy -- an on-line chatroom, properly schedualed with the 'audience' looking on but not commenting (I think there's a way to make the audience 'view only'), would do it. It's been done before. Of course, print-outs would be made available afterward.
Getting Dr? Dino into something like that will never happen. His garbage would be too easily scooped up and fed back to him with a shovel.
He has nothing beyond the gift of gab, and he knows it.
To set it up is easy, but for Hovind's (or another creationist) opponent it wouldn't be so much a debate as it would be constant debunking of the endless stream of rubbish emanating from him. And what's worse is, not only would some in the audience not be able to see who's right or wrong, but Hovind himself would intentionally ignore everything he doesn't have a humouros answer to, and give "funny" replies to everything else in order to score with the audience. Hovind would clearly lose, but would he lose in the eyes of the audience no matter if it was "in real life" or online?
I could agree with Kil that creationism doesn't deserve a debate though. It would be like arranging a debate between an astrologer and an astronomer, or perhaps between someone who believe in "intelligent grappling" and a physicist who is a specialist on general relativity... There might not be much to debate. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 21:46:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Makes you wonder what kindom he belongs to. Fungi?
I think you're being generous. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 21:50:52 [Permalink]
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| And that our brains are made out of chemicals! Is there no end to this satanist atheistic indoctrination? |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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