Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 General Skepticism
 Investment schemes
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 15

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2004 :  14:52:35  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
I guess I haven't seen a lot of discussion about Multi-level marketing, pyramid schemes and the like. A friend of mine got into the Private Investor Profit System at Pureinvestor.comhttps://pips.pureinvestor.com/guest/pips_main2.php?sponsor=admin.

So far she's invested $1400 bucks since February. $900 on 2/16/04 and $500 on 6/18/04.

on 9/9/04 she received a check for $760. She expects this week to get a check for about $950. In accounts that she's left to grow she has a total return on investment in excess of $7000 or $8,000 (can't quite tell from what she said, but I think the total return on investment including money already received is over $9,000.

I haven't asked her about it, but from the pureinvestor.com web site, it seems that the exact way that money is made is a secret open only to members.

I see now that the people who run this (from Malaysia) are now starting a five-year plan.

Obviously, I'm waiting to see how much money my friend actually pulls out of this thing, and how long it all lasts.

Anyone have experience with such things? How long do you give it? Do you think she'll pull out more than she put in? I don't know how long the thing's been in existence.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2004 :  16:57:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I'd advise your friend to take her money and run whilst she's ahead. Beyond the poker table, there is no honest way that there could be that kind of return on $1,400. I'll bet a dollar against a bent nickle that if she stays in, she'll lose it all back plus a bundle.

I know ripe bait when I smell it.

Ask her if they'll let her withdraw some of the long-term cash.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2004 :  17:08:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
They have debit cards and some kind of PayPal type accounts as well so that people think they have their money, but really don't yet because it's so expensive to get a check from Malaysia. They get charged for getting a check, and there's a charge for opening these accounts.

I wonder if she's one of the top layers, and will actually get all of her money back or even more to get more suckers in.

If I get the chance, I'll ask her if there is some kind of restriction on getting more money out. I know that the idea is that the more money you leave in, the more money you supposedly make.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2004 :  17:46:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I would expect some kind of big penalty, perhaps (probably) including the loss of whatever profit she's 'made'.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this reads like a nasty one. The sheer size of the return sets off all sorts of alarm bells.

The internet has spawned some truly great scams. We should all be thankful that P.T. Barnham and Soapy Smith never got to use it.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2004 :  21:38:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Pyramid scam.

The people who set it up and market it are the ones who make money, nobody else.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  07:49:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

I guess I haven't seen a lot of discussion about Multi-level marketing, pyramid schemes and the like. A friend of mine got into the Private Investor Profit System at Pureinvestor.comhttps://pips.pureinvestor.com/guest/pips_main2.php?sponsor=admin.

So far she's invested $1400 bucks since February. $900 on 2/16/04 and $500 on 6/18/04.

on 9/9/04 she received a check for $760. She expects this week to get a check for about $950. In accounts that she's left to grow she has a total return on investment in excess of $7000 or $8,000 (can't quite tell from what she said, but I think the total return on investment including money already received is over $9,000.

I haven't asked her about it, but from the pureinvestor.com web site, it seems that the exact way that money is made is a secret open only to members.

I see now that the people who run this (from Malaysia) are now starting a five-year plan.

Obviously, I'm waiting to see how much money my friend actually pulls out of this thing, and how long it all lasts.

Anyone have experience with such things? How long do you give it? Do you think she'll pull out more than she put in? I don't know how long the thing's been in existence.



Your friend is in serious trouble.

She has engaged in and contributed to a Ponzi scheme.

She now has USC Title 18 problems if she lives in the US and similar problems if she lives in Canada.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/pIch61.html

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Go to Top of Page

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  08:03:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Thanks. I wondered about that, too, especially because there is nothing anywhere that says that that is in fact what is happening. No one in the U.S. could possibly check it out because the place is licensed in Malaysia. Is it illegal to invest your money in a company that says that it's helping third world countries and improving the environment?

I don't know for sure what she's been told, but I seriously doubt that she's been told that it's a pyramid scheme. I doubt she's been told anything except that she's liable to make a lot of money, but sorry, there are no guarantees.

I appreciate the legal stuff, though. That will help me with others who I think might be considering getting involved.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Go to Top of Page

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  08:12:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Does this qualify as a lottery?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Go to Top of Page

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  11:38:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Does this qualify as a lottery?



It qualifies as a gift enterprize. (aka Ponzi scheme where investors are paid from subsequent investors)


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Go to Top of Page

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  12:38:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Thanks. Interesting. I'll have to mull that one over.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Go to Top of Page

R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  16:32:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
Gorgo:

Check out the Skeptics Dictionary on this one:

http://skepdic.com/mlm.html

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
Go to Top of Page

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2004 :  18:28:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Thanks, I did check that out. Skepdic and other sites like http://www.mlmwatch.org are always good sources of information.

I looked at them before I posted, hoping maybe to find something specific about this group or this Bryan Marsden, who seems to be the one in charge, or the name that the one in charge is using. I didn't find anything specific, but it does seem to be similar to other pyramid schemes.



quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck

Gorgo:

Check out the Skeptics Dictionary on this one:

http://skepdic.com/mlm.html


I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Go to Top of Page

Hally8296
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2004 :  02:31:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hally8296 a Private Message
Hi, I think you guys should research what your talking about before trying to make investing in pureinvestor a fraudulant act. IT IS NOT A PYRIMID SCHEME OR A PONZI SCHEME! You do not have people under you and people under that thus making people at the "top" earn all the money. That is completely and utterly false information. You CAN sponser someone to sign up with you and get 10 a month from them. BUT YOU DO NOT GET $ if they then sign up people. Therefore as it doesnt flow down the chain from top to bottom it is NOT a pyrimid scheme.

Quote - Valiant Dancer: "It qualifies as a gift enterprize. (aka Ponzi scheme where investors are paid from subsequent investors"

Incorrect... "Subsequent" Investors do not pay you with their money. Pure investor invest your money as well as everyone else into various items such as real estate stocks bonds shares ect makes a profit then forwards it onto you. PUREINVESTOR PAYS YOU not other investors.

Also you are saying that they are trying to "con" you into keeping more money in your account with the upside of making alot of money. WELL ISN"T THAT WHAT INVESTING IS ALL ABOUT. BIGGER INVESTMENT = BIGGER RETURN???

CHECK YOUR FACTS GUYS

HALLY
Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2004 :  02:46:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

They have debit cards and some kind of PayPal type accounts as well so that people think they have their money, but really don't yet because it's so expensive to get a check from Malaysia. They get charged for getting a check, and there's a charge for opening these accounts.

I wonder if she's one of the top layers, and will actually get all of her money back or even more to get more suckers in.

If I get the chance, I'll ask her if there is some kind of restriction on getting more money out. I know that the idea is that the more money you leave in, the more money you supposedly make.

It sounded like she might be an early investor who would get money before the collapse until you posted this part.

Sounds like a total scam. Maybe she thinks she'll get money but getting charged for a check because it's from Malaysia? Why? BIG RED FLAG in my mind. Keep us posted, now I'm curious. No way would I get involved, though. Scams like this happen everyday and people just keep falling for them. Like they say, there's no free lunch in business.

Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2004 :  03:05:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Hally, hi and welcome.

But this is a skeptic forum so you can expect skepticism. I'm not sure what you are defending, the legal implications, or the legitimacy of the investment scheme. Bottom line is the whole thing sounds pretty fishy.

My brother has an investment making 15%. His money is used as short term cash flow loans for companies that have cash flow problems. The accounts receivable are bought with a 15% margin. The company with the accounts receivable get their payments sooner rather than later. My brother makes 15% when the invoices are paid.

But, high gain always carries high risk. If the invoices don't get paid for some reason, bankruptcy being the most common, then the money is lost. My brother thinks there is no risk because he "knows the people so well" and the invoices are good collateral. He thinks having a cash flow problem doesn't mean you are a shaky company.

I say it is risky because if a company has to borrow at 15% when interest rates are so low, they can't have the best credit.

Anyway, my point of posting all this is you have to know exactly what it is these folks are doing with your money to make money. If it is some supposed dealings in Malaysia, you'd want to know even more about the company. A slick web site or sales pitch is no way to choose an investment. If there is a claim of big profits, it's going to be high risk at best and a total scam at worst.

Having you keep your profits in an account in Malaysia ought to tell you something is fishy. Claiming there is some big bank fee to transfer money ought to tell you something is fishy.
Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2004 :  03:12:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
OK, I just looked at the site. That is a total absolute scam. Don't fall for it and if you put any money in good luck getting it back. And I have no doubt. Legitimate investments just don't work that way. Scams do.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 15 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.48 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000