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 Winning the war on Creationists?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2004 :  17:55:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by llDayo

Just to point out: In Hebrew, Adam means mankind, Eve means life. Any chance that these were misinterpreted to mean two actual people?
Huh? Are you implying that Cain was the first Man on Earth? He must be, if Adam literally wsn't...

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  23:39:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
Yeah, a recent Newsweek poll suggests the question should be, "How badly are we losing the war on Creationists."

According to their results, very badly.

"Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty-three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea."

We are heading for a new Dark Age. I'm being completely serious. We have one hell of a problem in this country, and I can't begin to contemplate a solution.

Among other horrifying tidbits:

"Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas—the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East—is historically accurate."

and...

"In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible."

That's right. There are actually more people like Verlch than not in this nation.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/06/2004 23:47:06
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  01:40:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Yeah, a recent Newsweek poll suggests the question should be, "How badly are we losing the war on Creationists."

According to their results, very badly.

"Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty-three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea."

We are heading for a new Dark Age. I'm being completely serious. We have one hell of a problem in this country, and I can't begin to contemplate a solution.

Among other horrifying tidbits:

"Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas—the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East—is historically accurate."

and...

"In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible."

That's right. There are actually more people like Verlch than not in this nation.

Bender: "Are we boned?"

Lela: "Yeah, we're boned."


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  01:46:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Somewhere back in this thread, verlch again wanted fossils, so I wasted my time and again dug up these four sites:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/bacteria/bacteriafr.html

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/icthyo.htm

http://www.mdgekko.com/devonian/devo

http://songseek.com/picturenet/photos/oldcalais/image1.htm

Now I'm sure that everybody has heard me bitch about nobody opening links. From verlch, I expect that, but is nobody else even the least curious? There's some interesting fossils in there, including one that you've never seen before.



"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 12/07/2004 04:09:06
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26016 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  11:26:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

There's some interesting fossils in there, including one that you've never seen before.
Gotta admit, filthy, that I was impressed by this missing link, and also this fossil, which I had never seen before.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  21:48:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Yeah, a recent Newsweek poll suggests the question should be, "How badly are we losing the war on Creationists."

According to their results, very badly.

"Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty-three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea."

We are heading for a new Dark Age. I'm being completely serious. We have one hell of a problem in this country, and I can't begin to contemplate a solution.

Among other horrifying tidbits:

"Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas#8212;the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East#8212;is historically accurate."

and...

"In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible."

That's right. There are actually more people like Verlch than not in this nation.






Dark age? The bible says that in the latter days many will run to and fro and knowledge will increase.

http://www.biblestudents.org/presence/signs_travel.htm

4: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Knowledge has increased!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  06:41:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Verlich your freaking knowledge sure hasn't increased!

I hate to admit it but I didn't get Filthy's 'missing link' until I read Dave's post.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  07:47:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by filthy

There's some interesting fossils in there, including one that you've never seen before.
Gotta admit, filthy, that I was impressed by this missing link, and also this fossil, which I had never seen before.

Hmph. Dunno what happened to the link. Not important though, as I've put it up before. And our friend verlch won't open it, anyway, so whaddahell?

But I will look at it and hopfully find out what went wrong.

As for the fossil, I do that sort of thing now and again just to see what the reaction will be.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  08:09:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:

But I will look at it and hopfully find out what went wrong.


So it wasn't supposed to be a "missing link"? How odd, and quite funny too.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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tkster
Skeptic Friend

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  10:22:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tkster a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Yeah, a recent Newsweek poll suggests the question should be, "How badly are we losing the war on Creationists."

According to their results, very badly.

"Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty-three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea."

We are heading for a new Dark Age. I'm being completely serious. We have one hell of a problem in this country, and I can't begin to contemplate a solution.

Among other horrifying tidbits:

"Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas#8212;the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East#8212;is historically accurate."

and...

"In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible."

That's right. There are actually more people like Verlch than not in this nation.






Dark age? The bible says that in the latter days many will run to and fro and knowledge will increase.

http://www.biblestudents.org/presence/signs_travel.htm

4: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Knowledge has increased!



No the better verse would have been from 2 or 1rst Timothy, I never remember, "ever learning and never being able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Daniel is so vague it's amazing anyone even opens that book, except for the whole lion thing.

tk
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  00:11:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

Chimps and humans are indeed very closely related. So close, in fact, that there is speculation that the two species might be able to interbreed. For ethical reasons this has never been put to the test... atleast publicly (and I suspect that if it had ever been tested, and the results were negative, it would have been published someplace)..... maybe that deserves to go in the conspiracy folder... heh. Anyway...

v-man, just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not the truth. So many of you fundies are outright offended by the concept of common descent, it seems to shut off what minimal critical thinking skills you do have. Perhaps because you recognize that the evidence for it is real, and it directly conflicts with your silly little creation story. You're more comfortable in your own little fantasy, so you react with scorn to anythng that contradicts your view..... and have no regard for evidence at all.






I want no part of your evolution. You can believe you evolved from 'the great ape' and super 'fish'. I can from the hand of God! I'm not even going to pretend to pay homage to your science. I am prepared to die for it. Like I said before you can't pay me a million, billion or trillion dollars to believe in your theory! All the wealth and power in this world will not sway me.

Your kind throws out evidence contradicting your theory. You dismiss them as fraud so don't even start that with me. Atheist have kept evolution alive so they can be atheists. There is enough evidence in bits and pieces to 'bury' evolution in the sand, yet in order to be Atheists you have to keep it alive. Evolution only has life because Atheists give life to it. Its a belief structure, takes a million times more faith than a belief in God, and to top it off it is a religon. I want no part in it.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  03:31:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by Dude

Chimps and humans are indeed very closely related. So close, in fact, that there is speculation that the two species might be able to interbreed. For ethical reasons this has never been put to the test... atleast publicly (and I suspect that if it had ever been tested, and the results were negative, it would have been published someplace)..... maybe that deserves to go in the conspiracy folder... heh. Anyway...

v-man, just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not the truth. So many of you fundies are outright offended by the concept of common descent, it seems to shut off what minimal critical thinking skills you do have. Perhaps because you recognize that the evidence for it is real, and it directly conflicts with your silly little creation story. You're more comfortable in your own little fantasy, so you react with scorn to anythng that contradicts your view..... and have no regard for evidence at all.






I want no part of your evolution. You can believe you evolved from 'the great ape' and super 'fish'. I can from the hand of God! I'm not even going to pretend to pay homage to your science. I am prepared to die for it. Like I said before you can't pay me a million, billion or trillion dollars to believe in your theory! All the wealth and power in this world will not sway me.

Your kind throws out evidence contradicting your theory. You dismiss them as fraud so don't even start that with me. Atheist have kept evolution alive so they can be atheists. There is enough evidence in bits and pieces to 'bury' evolution in the sand, yet in order to be Atheists you have to keep it alive. Evolution only has life because Atheists give life to it. Its a belief structure, takes a million times more faith than a belief in God, and to top it off it is a religon. I want no part in it.

This would be hilarious if it weren't so head-in-the-sand paranoid!

Verlch, until the evidence presented by creationists is anything other than trash, it will continue to be thrown out.

You've been skittering about these boards for quite some time now, and I have yet to see you present anything beyond verbage nor cite and reference anything other than nonsense. There are lot of woo-woo sites out there and you seem to gravitate to them like my house 'possum goes for garbage, the greasier the better in both cases.

I really don't need the ToE to support my atheism. The lack of reliable evidence for any religion and people like you reenforce it quite well, thank you.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  03:48:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I really don't need the ToE to support my atheism. The lack of reliable evidence for any religion and people like you reenforce it quite well, thank you.
So your not an atheist, because you know that god exists and you want to rebel against him and be able engage in debaucheries.

Could all those apologetic web sites be wrong?


"I think you're some kind of deviated prevert. I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and that you were organizing some kind of mutiny of preverts. Now MOVE!"
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  04:08:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Starman

quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I really don't need the ToE to support my atheism. The lack of reliable evidence for any religion and people like you reenforce it quite well, thank you.
So your not an atheist, because you know that god exists and you want to rebel against him and be able engage in debaucheries.

Could all those apologetic web sites be wrong?


"I think you're some kind of deviated prevert. I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and that you were organizing some kind of mutiny of preverts. Now MOVE!"

Hah! If I knew, from emperical evidence, that God or any deity, however outrageous it might be, actually existed, I'd out-verlch even verlch!

But as things stand, I'll continue my life of unbridled hedonism.

Now, I am going to go and perform the profane ceremony of poaching an egg for my breakfast.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  12:25:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
[/quote]

Now, I am going to go and perform the profane ceremony of poaching an egg for my breakfast.


[/quote]


Be careful it might evolve before your eyes and turn into a flying fish!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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