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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  09:12:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Who said it was unusual? Do not blow it off as so what it happens. That is not critical thinking not scientific. Don't be a true believer.
Just think about it why do you have that connection with someone close and why can't you have it with a personal stranger? What is the force behind the conenection? We know it exists. You yourself just said it has happened to you. I believe you
We know there are all anomolies
People like Stephen Hawkins
So why not an anomolie in the psychic field?
A Medium of sorts.
We know the phenomenon exists?

Storm, do you really think that we don't want to find that psychic abilities exist? Nothing could be further from the truth. We'd love to discover that Uri Geller really could bend spoons with what's left of his mind. We'd wax lyrical and shout praises to find out that Edgar Case was the real deal and Michael of Notra Dame wrote actual prophecies rather than vauge gibberish in his quatrains (I've read the translations. Yeesh!).

Damn, Sam! Gimmie something a lot more solid than the high-sounding blather produced thus far, and I'll at last have hope that we are something other than the confused primate that evolution has made of us.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  09:21:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

What evidence do you have that it is the environment?
Do you mean Nature?
Have you not had this Phenomenon happen to you?
Yes.
Do you find it unreasonable that people that in the same place see, hear and smell the same things?
Do you find it unreasonable that people from the same culture think about similar things?
Do you find it unreasonable that what you see, hear, smell and feel affect your thought patterns?

Are you ever going to provide any support for any of your assertions?
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  09:24:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
So let us move beyond Uri Gellar and the such. Let us do more recent research and then discuss it. I Know the phenomenon of Psychic ability exists. I have experienced it numerous times. With those close and those not. It is not controlable just yet...
But I am working on it.
You can too
Let us not just believe what we have been told or read ...

Genius is an infinite love of taking pains... Sir James Matthew Barrie

Storm
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26016 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  09:25:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Storm wrote:
quote:
We know the phenomenon exists?
Absolutely the phenomenon exists, as Ricky, myself and others can tell you, it happens all the time.

What's in dispute here is what meaning one attaches to it. You choose to believe that something "psychic" is occuring. Without any more evidence, however, "coincidence" and "environment" explain the "mind reading" phenomena very, very well, and those explanations require no unsupported assumptions (like "We are at the frontier of Psychic ability.").

I suggest you go read up on the use of Occam's Razor, and also the old skeptic's adage "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  09:33:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
I agree with you about the name you put on it. Coincedence Psychic. I think Carl Jung talks about Sighns and Symbols. Who says it is an extroridnary claim? Is it because it cannot be controlled, harnessed replicated?
If you agree that the phenomenon exists than can it be acheived outside those we are close to?
What in the environment causes the phenomenon?

Storm
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  09:33:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
I have experienced it numerous times.


What exactly have you experienced?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  09:43:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Most recently while at work I had been thinking about a particular client who had lost their dog to cancer.Icouncil people who have lost their pets. Not ten minute later that client called on the phone asking for me?
Most of my experiences have happened with people very close to me.
One day my son woke up and we were sitting at the table eating breakfast and I was looking at him wandering to my self what he dreams about and he looked at me and saidwell mommy I dream about alot of things.
I said what did you say and he said to me you asked what do I dream about...
I did not say anything to him I only thought it
I could go on and on

Storm
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  10:00:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Ancedotes. No support at all for any argument.

I could tell you that my house 'possum is really a werepossum who, when the full moon rises, he runs about biting people's feet. Would you believe it without at least recieving a 'possum-bitten foot?

Certainly not. We gotta to do better than this.

Incidently, the little bastard did bite me on the foot a while back, entirely unprovoked. I don't recall if the moon was full or not.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  18:59:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
Storm wrote:

Just because we cannot control or replicate does not mean it does not exist.


You can't prove a negative. I can't prove that anything "does not exist". That's a long way from evidence that it does exist.

quote:
The experience and phenomenon does. If it did not we would not be discussing it right now


We can discuss lots of things that don't exist. Like, did you see that touchdown I scored in last nights Monday Night Football game (I was the short slightly overweight white guy who can't run too fast)? Ot the video of the pope dancing the macarena? Naked? The fact that we can have a discussion on these topics has no bearing on their veracity.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  19:03:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
filthy wrote:

Ancedotes. No support at all for any argument.



I was going to post that same thing! Damn! Have you been reading my mind again filthy?

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2004 :  19:16:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck

quote:
filthy wrote:

Ancedotes. No support at all for any argument.



I was going to post that same thing! Damn! Have you been reading my mind again filthy?

You are getting veery sleeeepy......


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  14:55:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message


Are you saying that the "coincedence" phenomenon is just that coincidence. That it is not telepathy. Then why so much phenomenon in people who are close: husband, wife,children,etc? Is it emotion that is the link? Almost like an imprint on the environment where a particular phenomenon occurs like an apparition. Many ghost sightings are where a tradgedy or extremely happy event has occured: Murder, Suicide, Love etc. Sometimes the simpliar answers are not always the truth. I think there is a lot more to this "coincedence " I think there is some natural force that causes the conection. I think that it can occur in higher amounts like an anomolie in a person like a Medium. Dare I say that word on a this chat room Unfortunetly when people here the word medium they immediately think fraud, trikster, etc. Of course we know that came from the investigations of Spiritualism. While there was no doubt many frauds who existed during that time, as well there were many who were not. Similiar to the Burning Times but not as terrible.
Man has communicated with the dead and the living through telepathy way before the invention of Science.
I think it is much more than coincidence that this phenomenon happens. I am sure you all have proof yourselves some more than others in your experiences. Oh but that's right that's what we call ancedote. Is that the right word? Well you Skeptics know what I mean? But you can't deny that you have had one if not many through the years.
Everything purposeful in Scientific Thinking begins with feeling - Claude Bernard

Storm
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  15:18:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Are you saying that the "coincedence" phenomenon is just that coincidence. That it is not telepathy. Then why so much phenomenon in people who are close: husband, wife,children,etc?


Why would you not expect people who live together to not have more coincedences? I may have a million coincedences with someone in Alaska, but I don't even know them so I can't hear of them.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  15:19:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Kitten, the fact you seem to be missing is: you can think all you want about it, it won't make it true.

I can think there's a Blue Lizard of D00m in my room. I can be absolutely convinced of it. But he just ain't there, no matter how I want it to be there. Just saying it won't make it real. Just thinking it's real, or even believing it is, won't make it real. Reality doesn't give a damn for what you, or me, or whomever else, think. Reality is reality, capische? I'm not saying those things don't exist. I'm just saying I see no way how you can "know" such things exist, and yet fail at such simple task as proving it with some solid, hardcore, unquestionable evidence other than "it happened."

I won't even mention the bloody Spiritualism again, as you seem to keep avoiding the question and shunning us with "go study!" instead of actually doing something. No, I didn't read anything about it. I don't care about it enough to read about it. So I can't be biased by it, right?

I wonder, do you see any value in something such as an university?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
Edited by - Siberia on 12/02/2004 15:21:56
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Shacal
Skeptic Friend

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  15:22:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Shacal a Private Message
quote:
I think there is a lot more to this "coincedence " I think there is some natural force that causes the conection. I think that it can occur in higher amounts like an anomolie in a person like a Medium.


You start 3 sentences in a row with "I think". You must understand that just "thinking" something "seems" true doesn't cut it for evidence. In fact, the entire basis of your post is on your musings, and that means nothing to anyone but you. WHY do you think it is more than coincidence? Provide some proof.

quote:
Man has communicated with the dead and the living through telepathy way before the invention of Science.



Umm, how exactly do you know this? This appears to be a rather random assertion.

quote:
I think it is much more than coincidence that this phenomenon happens. I am sure you all have proof yourselves some more than others in your experiences. Oh but that's right that's what we call ancedote. Is that the right word? Well you Skeptics know what I mean? But you can't deny that you have had one if not many through the years.


What.. experiences? Yes, I have experienced coincidences in the sense of an improbable set of events happening. Why just now I flipped a coin and it landed on heads 5 times in a row. A GHOST IS HAUNTING MY MONEY!

"The problem with communication is the illusion that we have accomplished it"
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