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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  15:57:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
My random assertion would be Umm HISTORY!! You should read it sometime
Why an Improbable set of Events?
Improbable - unlikely to be true or to occur; also : unlikely but real or true
Who said anything about a ghost?

Storm
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Shacal
Skeptic Friend

USA
51 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  16:08:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Shacal a Private Message
quote:
My random assertion would be Umm HISTORY!! You should read it sometime


Oh... right... history, um where precisely in pre-science "HISTORY" does it mention psychically communicating with the dead?

quote:
Improbable - unlikely to be true or to occur; also : unlikely but real or true


Exactly. Improbable events occur. However, no event has ever occured (and been inarguably proven) that broke a fundamental law of nature. Things have beaten the odds, like your coincidences.

"The problem with communication is the illusion that we have accomplished it"
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  16:22:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

My random assertion would be Umm HISTORY!! You should read it sometime

Storm, it's becoming increasingly clear that you base a large portion of your beliefs on assumptions you no longer remember where you picked up. To say that the proof of your assertion is "history" means that you cannot think of a single concrete example. You make base assumptions backed up with generalities and footnoted with the odd anecdote. It is sloppy thinking.

Try to organize your thoughts. Present a linear argument. Work with one specific example and expand upon it. To merely claim that "sometime, somwhere, something happened which I'm certain is beyond Science's current explanation of reality and I have thousands of stories, some of which must be true (although I cannot tell you which ones), to back me up" is NOT a valid argument.

Surely you can see why?


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/02/2004 16:23:50
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  16:52:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
So let us start with the experience I had with My cat. Catch it one of my other posts.
do you think all the Evp's recorded are fake? Shams? Falsness? Have you listened to any lately? Have you tried any yourself? Do you know what Evp is? I can't prove that these are voices are of the dead but we do not have to say that is the only answer
Radio waves Balls of energy that live on after our coporeal death? Conscious? One would think through the different types of hauntings some could be.
Some could not...
Maybe just a ball of memory that floats around...
Every so often we pick that energy up and we have experiences like
Ghosts...
Telepathy...
Energy does not die...

Storm
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  17:10:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
So let us start with the experience I had with My cat. Catch it one of my other posts.
do you think all the Evp's recorded are fake? Shams? Falsness? Have you listened to any lately? Have you tried any yourself? Do you know what Evp is? I can't prove that these are voices are of the dead but we do not have to say that is the only answer
Radio waves Balls of energy that live on after our coporeal death? Conscious? One would think through the different types of hauntings some could be.
Some could not...
Maybe just a ball of memory that floats around...
Every so often we pick that energy up and we have experiences like
Ghosts...
Telepathy...
Energy does not die...

Storm
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  17:18:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Oh, so now energy has a conscious life of its own?
That'd mean all stars in the universe are alive.

Edited for coherence.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
Edited by - Siberia on 12/02/2004 17:19:09
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  17:28:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Whoever said energy had consciuos life of it's own? Not I? But I will however question it ?
Since I have no proof of it not being or being I have yet to make up my mind.
Are we really just Animated Energy?
Are we?

Storm
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  17:34:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
No, we aren't.

But you said energy lives on, and used that as an argument for the existence of ghosts, being the energy of the deceased that's just floating on the universe. Thus, we can infer life comes from the energy.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  17:48:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Okay Storm. Okay, okay. Let's 'still this mash off to to the liquor.

A: There has never been any psychic claim that has been tested by any scientific method that has been successful. All who have been tested have fallen into the 'blind hog' percentages (even a blind hog'll find an acorn now and then).

B: Until a test, double blind as Randi does it, is successful and can be repeated, it is a failure.

There has got to be some strict criteria for this sort of thing. Otherwise, it's like trusting the Weekly World News for accurate, scientific information.

As for being a 'True Believer,' I might offer that shoe for your foot. You are professing a belief in that which has not been proven to exist.

As a skeptic, I am, I have to be, open to persuasion, but it takes a lot more than unsupported claims to persuade me. The same is true with all of us.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  18:00:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Are you talking about James Randi the Umm Magician? The Trickster, the slight of hand man?
I never said that energy was just the ghosts of dead people?
I never said it was not?
You all want me to give you these answers
We are on the fringe of these answers
If you don't care to learn as You Siberia do not care or wish to than how can you make positive decisionn within yourself.
http://www.parapsych.org/index.html
Check out this website.

Storm
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  18:30:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Are you talking about James Randi the Umm Magician? The Trickster, the slight of hand man?

That would be him. A man of many talents. You may also add "Entertainer," "Critical Thinker" and "Tester of Paranormal Claims" to that list.

quote:
I never said that energy was just the ghosts of dead people?
I never said it was not?

First of all, those are not questions. Secondly, that is the problem, Storm. You're not saying anything of substance, you just enjoy implying a whole lot.

What do you want us to admit to exactly? That people might leave some sort of energy behind after they die that those with psychic abilities can pick up?

Well, yes, that is possible. Anything is possible. But thus far you haven't provided any reason whatever as to why anyone would think it is a likely possibility. You are not saying anything other than that you, personally, like to entertain fairly distant possibilities without a shred of proof. Of course you can do that, but what you are practicing is a type of religion. You haven't made up your mind, you say? Then why do you keep making claims like "some stories must be true" or "the phenomenon is very real."

That is a statement of faith, as thus far you've been unable to provide a single example. And for the last time, people are not energy, nor "animated energy," nor any of the other empty terms which you throw around.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/02/2004 18:38:56
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  18:36:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Are you talking about James Randi the Umm Magician? The Trickster, the slight of hand man?
I never said that energy was just the ghosts of dead people?
I never said it was not?
You all want me to give you these answers
We are on the fringe of these answers
If you don't care to learn as You Siberia do not care or wish to than how can you make positive decisionn within yourself.
http://www.parapsych.org/index.html
Check out this website.

Yes, Randi, he of the $1,000,000 prize for any confirmed, paranormal claim.

http://www.randi.org/

I do indeed want to learn, as does Siberia and all others here. We read and research constantly toward that end. Unfortunatly, you have yet to put forth anything based upon solid fact.

So, you demand we go skallyhooting off to paranormal websites -- been there and done that. And have found nothing solid there, either. Only unsupported claims, arguments from popularity, and appeals to 'logic.' Also many, funky photos, some pretty obvious fakes.

You seem to insist that we must go on some sort of spiritual trip, with no guidence from you, to fully understand. I hate to break this to you, but we don't operate that way. With us, you make your claim and produce your supporting evidence. If that evidence is valid, we'll readily embrace it, perhaps after some in-house argument (skeptics are not always in agreement).

You have given us exactly nothing. Thus, we must regard your claims as little more than wind.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  18:52:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Let me clarify to you I am not sure Exactly what the phenomenon is or how it works but the fact is H. Humbert the phenomenon exists.
there is much more than websites there are numerous journals, etc.
i am giving you guidence but I sure don't need to give you the answers. I do not know all if any But I know alot about the paranormal.
Wind I am much more than wind..
I am... Storm

Storm
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  19:11:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Let me clarify to you I am not sure Exactly what the phenomenon is or how it works but the fact is H. Humbert the phenomenon exists.
This isn't in dispute. The phenomenon that people hear/see/feel things that they can't explain, and so hastily jump to the conclusion that ghosts are somehow involved does, indeed, exist.
quote:
there is much more than websites there are numerous journals, etc.
But you can't seem to point to a single piece of hard, repeatable evidence which cannot be explained by ordinary (as opposed to extraordinary) occurrences.
quote:
i am giving you guidence but I sure don't need to give you the answers. I do not know all if any But I know alot about the paranormal.
And what if someone provides you with evidence that it is all normal? Would you change your implied position?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2004 :  19:14:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Let me clarify to you I am not sure Exactly what the phenomenon is or how it works but the fact is H. Humbert the phenomenon exists.
there is much more than websites there are numerous journals, etc.
i am giving you guidence but I sure don't need to give you the answers. I do not know all if any But I know alot about the paranormal.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that you know a lot about something you cannot define and don't understand?


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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