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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2004 : 10:21:42 [Permalink]
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Science is based on theory? That does not make sense, once again.
Science is based on data that is repeatable over and over again, tested and retested with as many data points as possible, confirmed by uninvolved parties who can reach the same data and conclusions as you did.
A Theory is only that subject which has so much data supporting it that it is universally accepted by the RELAVENT scientific community, Relativity and Evolution are examples. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2004 : 10:37:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I am not a whiner just as I am not rude.
You can deny the evidence all you like, it doesn't change the facts.quote:
Read the Damn Journal Starman. Read the ones on PSI. Read the Comendium for PSI on the European Parapyschology foundation
No can do. Googling for "european parapsychology foundation" presents zero results. And you were too selfish to offer a link.quote:
It is time for the new Science to arise..
You really don't understand how science works.quote:
Maybe after all that blind double blind sh@&t you'll open your eyes
And what's wrong with double-blind testing? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2004 : 10:52:50 [Permalink]
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I would really like to nominate this post for something.
Do we have any categories?
Perhaps Most Ironic Post of the year?
Most absurd/surreal Post?
Anyway it has my vote!quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I am not a whiner just as I am not rude. Read the Damn Journal Starman. Read the ones on PSI. Read the Comendium for PSI on the European Parapyschology foundation
It is time for the new Science to arise..
Maybe after all that blind double blind sh@&t you'll open your eyes
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2004 : 13:23:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
http://www.psy.gu.se/EJP/EJP.htm
European Journal of Parapsychology
Selfish No
Good. Now, at last, we're getting somewhere. This is an annually published journal. I found no mention of the numbers and identies -- universities and such -- of it's subscribers.
It's an intresting read, albeit inconclusive. I liked the histories presented of various experiments.
I looked around to find out more about it and came up with this:
quote:
European Journal of Parapsychology
Paul Stevens (Editor) • Ian Baker (Associate Editor) • Koestler Parapsychology Unit, University of Edinburgh, 7 George Square, Edinburgh EH8 9JZ, UK
ISSN: 0168-7263
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The European Journal of Parapsychology (EJP) is a peer-reviewed scientific journal for research - particularly theoretical and theory-driven empirical work - relating to the field of parapsychology (defined as the study of communication or interaction between organisms and their environment that do not appear to rely on the established sensorimotor channels). The Journal's aim is to stimulate and enhance activity in parapsychology, particularly in Europe, by publishing articles, reviews and comments that offer insight into or criticisms of parapsychological research. The Journal also publishes peer-reviewed Student Research Briefs.
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*** From the 2004 issue onwards, there is a new look EJP and updated remit to reflect the change in editors. Please direct all general enquiries to info@ejp.org.uk.
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Submissions
Submissions are welcome on any topic that falls under the heading of parapsychology (as defined in the EJP remit). Authors are requested to briefly define any specific terms used (including 'standard' terms such as ESP, PK) in the text of the paper.
ARTICLES are reports of experimental, clinical or theoretical research, with introductory comments and discussion of results generally being of direct relevance to the data or ideas being presented. Generally articles should be less than 10,000 words in length, though longer papers may be accepted after prior negotiation with the Editors. After evaluation by the editorial team, the initial article will be sent to two referees for peer-review.
http://ejp.org.uk/
Thus, it appears to be exactly as claimed. However, it also appears that none of the experiments written up the journal have ejoyed much success.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2004 : 20:35:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Storm wrote:
Energy does not die...
No, it doesn't. Of course, it's not alive either.
What energy consistently does is come to equilibrium with the environment. It does not float around talking to people, throwing slippers, or showing up as blotches on photographs.
Take for example a thermal power plant with a 1000 megawatt (MW) electrical output. Assuming roughly 33% efficiency, that means that to get that 1000 MW electrical, you need to extract about 3000 MW thermal from the fuel. Where does the other 2000 MW go? One way or another (friction, ambient heat losses, I2R losses, heat rejected because every heat engine must reject heat (see Carnot), etc.), it winds up in the environment. And all through well understood, predictable, repeatable, calculable processes. Once the energy is in equilibrium with the environment, it is useless. It cannot do any work. That is a tremendous amount of energy, enough to power 20,000,000 100 watt light bulbs. All from one plant. Nobody reports any unexplained effects from all that energy.
I checked my electric bill for last month. We consumed at a rate of about 2 KW (2000 watts), or 0.002 MW. This energy also winds up at equilibrium with the environment. Again, no unxplained phenomena.
Now lets look at the energy consumption of a human body. Assume you burn 2000 calories per day. That is about 0.0000023 MW-hrs, or a rate of 9.58 E-8 MW. The energy escaping from that body will do the same thing as the energy escaping from the power plant or my house. It will wind up in equilibrium with the environment, where it cannot be distinguished from the ambient energy.
The power plant puts more than 20,000,000,000 times as much energy into the environment as a human body does. My household uses about 869 times as much energy, in electricity alone, as one person uses.
So if we can't detect any unexplained phenomena from the energy equivalent of 20,000,000,000 people, or 869 people, and all that energy winds up as an indistinguishable part of the background, please scientifically explain to me how the energy output of one (1) person manages to not only stick around in some form not in equilibrium with the environment, but is somehow detectable at such a miniscule level. What is the physics behind this?
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 18:43:04 [Permalink]
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That Wreck I do not know. Science does not know? But many are trying
Maybe there is a difference between the Human Energy and the Energy of the Plant. Something threw that slipper. Whether it was the energy of me{telepathy}, my cat, ghost, time traveler, realm traveler, not sure. It was not my imagination for I picked that slipper up on the otherside of the bathroom. My cat had a definetly scared, defensive attitude towards something. I felt no cold spots, no reflection in the mirror, my hair clothes were not affected nothing associated with ghostly phenomenon. I am not really sure what happened? |
Storm |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 18:51:09 [Permalink]
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| Let us not forget that hundreds of years ago we did not have many of these Scientific Theories But yet this extraordinary evidence was always there. Just not discovered. Like the Paranormal. We can't fall short to debunking, To debunk is to be predipositoned to thiniking the Event is a sham, false. We must look at it seriously. There is much evidence for Telepathy. start with Phantasms of the Living Just type it in and you can choose which site. |
Storm |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 20:05:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Storm: To debunk is to be predipositoned to thiniking the Event is a sham, false. We must look at it seriously.
Your right. But you will never accept a serious investigation that turns up nothing. That has been the case so far. And that is what you refuse to understand. Move beyond anecdotal evidence and zero is the score for concluding a paranormal event. But you simply dismiss the investigators as being closed minded. Anecdotal evidence is all you have and what we don't accept. Face it.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 23:58:30 [Permalink]
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Storm wrote:quote:
There is much evidence for Telepathy. start with Phantasms of the Living Just type it in and you can choose which site.
Okay, I found a site which just listed a bunch of case reports of strange occurrences. They were only evidence for "something strange." Jumping to the conclusion that they are evidence for telepathy is not warranted.
Let us not forget that hundreds of years ago, those things which were unexplained, but later explained by scientific theories only got that way due to proper testing, standards of evidence, and decent logic. Lodestones, for example, are not explained by hundreds - or even thousands - of case reports of rocks which attract metal.
Let us also not forget that in those hundreds of years, there have been numerous scientific theories proposed which either have not been scientifc, or have been just plain wrong. The fact that we've got theories now that we didn't have before does not predict that it's probable that any idea will one day become a scientific theory.
Remember, they laughed at Gallileo, but they also laughed at the Marx Brothers. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2004 : 01:29:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Remember, they laughed at Gallileo, but they also laughed at the Marx Brothers.
Now, there's a good signature line!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2004 : 08:19:13 [Permalink]
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Or, as Carl Sagan once said,
quote:
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2004 : 11:00:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Storm wrote:
That Wreck I do not know. Science does not know? But many are trying
Maybe there is a difference between the Human Energy and the Energy of the Plant. Something threw that slipper. Whether it was the energy of me{telepathy}, my cat, ghost, time traveler, realm traveler, not sure.
You do not know because you obviously haven't learned about energy before tossing out unsubstantiated assertions. If you had, you would know that although energy comes in different forms (heat, light, potential, kinetic, stored chemical, etc.), all those forms can be related to each other. They can all be quantified with the same units, and in many cases either nature or man can convert one form of energy to another. It doesn't matter if you turn a handle on a manual can opener, or an electric motor does the work. Both processes require the same amount of energy to open the can. You get it from stored chemical energy from the food you ate. The electric can opener gets it from the stored chemical energy of coal, oil, or natural gas, or the release of the potential energy of water in a hydroelectric plant, or the stored nuclear energy of uranium, or the kinetic energy of wind, to name a few possibilities. In the end, it doesn't matter what the energy source is, because any one of them can open the can. So no, there is no substantial difference between "Human Energy" and any other kind of energy.
The other problem you have failed to address is where this slipper throwing energy was stored before it threw the slipper. Energy storage requires matter. There are no energy storage technologies which store energy outside of some form of matter. Be it a battery, a resevoir, a chunk of coal, or whatever, we don't find energy just floating around. So what was this energy stored in? As someone suggested much earlier in this thread, I suspect it was most likely stored in your cat who had a loose slipper thread caught on a claw. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 08:12:35 [Permalink]
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There was no cat no claw. I saw her paws in fact she was no where near the slippers!
Surely there is no comparison to Galileo and the Marx Brothers.
Maybe Wreck it is in the way we die the way the body decomposes that sends off the energy. Unlike the eletric plant or the can opener?
Let us make it clear here in reguards to ghost do not just think of it as the consious sould of the dearly departed. If we just stay with that then we stagnatem, We lose sight to the fact that unexplained phenomenon happen that we call Ghosts |
Storm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 08:47:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
There was no cat no claw. I saw her paws in fact she was no where near the slippers!
Surely there is no comparison to Galileo and the Marx Brothers.
Maybe Wreck it is in the way we die the way the body decomposes that sends off the energy. Unlike the eletric plant or the can opener?
Let us make it clear here in reguards to ghost do not just think of it as the consious sould of the dearly departed. If we just stay with that then we stagnatem, We lose sight to the fact that unexplained phenomenon happen that we call Ghosts
I suspect that the great bulk, indeed all, of these 'ghosts' can be explained by misinterpretation of natural phenomina and/or fraud.
Neither you nor I, nor anyone else knows for sure what happens after death. After all, Christian myth to the contrary, no one has ever come back to tell us about it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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