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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2561 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  23:33:04  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message
This is both ironic and sad: This is from of all places, The Coast to Coast AM website right now:
quote:
Legendary teacher and reformer, John Taylor Gatto, looks at our classrooms and how they are evolving generations that may not contribute to a healthy society in the future.
Ever think that it's because of all the bullshit and censorship of science and lack of teaching of critical thinking skills that's being spread around by both the religious right and just plain goofballs like art bell et al?

Nope. The Business of Schooling...
quote:
Since bored people are the best consumers, school had to be a boring place, and since childish people are the easiest customers to convince, the manufacture of childishness, extended into adulthood, had to be the first priority of factory schools. Naturally, teachers and administrators weren't let in on this plan; they didn't need to be. If they didn't conform to instructions passed down from increasingly centralized school offices, they didn't last long.
Sweet crap. You know, this guy may have a point, but I think it's more likely that it happened "by accident" than that there's a conspriacy behind it...At least I hope so!

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  01:34:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Politics have far too large an influence in our schools; witness the disclaimer stickers that Cobb County, GA has been whining about for the last, couple of years. If educating the childern were the school boards first concern, the question would never have been raised.

I think that the parents should take a greater role in the schools.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2004 :  11:39:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
The conspiracy is that hey brainwash americans into thinking they are the pinnacle of society when in fact we are below average in most catagories such as math, science, general knowledge, linguistics, human rights, % of general shitheads.

BPS is American BTW.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2004 :  23:54:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

The conspiracy is that hey brainwash americans into thinking they are the pinnacle of society when in fact we are below average in most catagories such as math, science, general knowledge, linguistics, human rights, % of general shitheads.

BPS is American BTW.



Import more Jews to make up the difference....They are smart.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  11:56:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

The conspiracy is that hey brainwash americans into thinking they are the pinnacle of society when in fact we are below average in most catagories such as math, science, general knowledge, linguistics, human rights, % of general shitheads.

BPS is American BTW.



Import more Jews to make up the difference....They are smart.



Well yes, but if you really wanted to be effective, you would have to deport all the YEC's at the same time.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  14:11:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
OWNED

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  14:56:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rubicon95 a Private Message
Gee I thought it was the currenct PC belief teachers were there not to teach but to build up self-esteem.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/education/20041004-9999-1m4pens.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A45116-2004Jan24¬Found=true

So as long as the child understands the math problem, It doesn't matter if he gets it right or wrong. I love new math. We need a New Math accountant for the deficit (or do we have one already)

Didn't realize the YEC's, Creationists and Believers were causing the decline in American Education.


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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  16:37:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
So as long as the child understands the math problem, It doesn't matter if he gets it right or wrong. I love new math. We need a New Math accountant for the deficit (or do we have one already)


Now lets move that into the real world. If you work for NASA, it doesn't matter if the math in the trajectory of a rocket is right or wrong, as long as you understand how to do it.

Working for the IRS, it doesn't matter if your math is right or wrong, as long as you understand it.

Obviously, that doesn't apply to the real world, which is what school is supposed to prepare you for.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  16:42:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

quote:
So as long as the child understands the math problem, It doesn't matter if he gets it right or wrong. I love new math. We need a New Math accountant for the deficit (or do we have one already)


Now lets move that into the real world. If you work for NASA, it doesn't matter if the math in the trajectory of a rocket is right or wrong, as long as you understand how to do it.

Working for the IRS, it doesn't matter if your math is right or wrong, as long as you understand it.

Obviously, that doesn't apply to the real world, which is what school is supposed to prepare you for.


Working for an engineering company, doesn't matter if the math's right or wrong, as long as you get it.

I'd watch out for falling buildings

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  18:52:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
Didn't realize the YEC's, Creationists and Believers were causing the decline in American Education.


Then I'm glad you now do.

The fact that more people beleive in virgin birth and a man rising from the dead (in a literal sense), than understand evolution.... should be your first clue.

Science and math illeteracy in this country is amazing to behold, and the sciences that contradict the YEC/creationist point of view are under assault by a large and well organized political campaign. Public schools are being constantly pressured, and sometimes ordered by their various school boards, to teach "alternatives" to evolution. Some, as mentioned, have warning labels on science books that are a deliberate misrepresentation. (and here I though lies were a sin)

And so on and so on....


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  22:01:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
Didn't realize the YEC's, Creationists and Believers were causing the decline in American Education.


Then I'm glad you now do.

The fact that more people beleive in virgin birth and a man rising from the dead (in a literal sense), than understand evolution.... should be your first clue.

Science and math illeteracy in this country is amazing to behold, and the sciences that contradict the YEC/creationist point of view are under assault by a large and well organized political campaign. Public schools are being constantly pressured, and sometimes ordered by their various school boards, to teach "alternatives" to evolution. Some, as mentioned, have warning labels on science books that are a deliberate misrepresentation. (and here I though lies were a sin)

And so on and so on....





Remember Evolutionist evolved from monkies! Christians, Jews and Islam are created from the hand of God. So why not allow those who beleive in God study how we are made.

Why do we have to believe in your unprovable theory? Do as you wish and study what you like. My children will never step foot in a public school.

Hey how about this if you don't preach evolution, we won't preach creation! Just leave it up to the parents to believe in the ultimate parent of the universe!

Evolution needs to be tossed out and creation needs to tossed out! So that way you guys will shut up about it! A child should not be forced to study a theory which the parents detest! In fact if economic reasons force me to send my child to PS, I will monitor his classes and divert him from having to learn anything about it! Sure I will tell him about it, and he is more than on his own to make his own personal choices! I can't even believe people feel evolution is an option!

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2004 :  01:14:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
My children will never step foot in a public school.


Now there is a scary thought, little Verlch's.

quote:
So that way you guys will shut up about it!


Doesn't matter what happens, unless evidence is provided otherwise we will never shut up about it.

quote:
A child should not be forced to study a theory which the parents detest!


I hate thermodynamics, so my children shouldn't have to learn it.

quote:
In fact if economic reasons force me to send my child to PS, I will monitor his classes and divert him from having to learn anything about it!


When you don't teach your children math, they fail. Why you don't teach them english, they fail. When you don't teach them biology...

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2004 :  07:30:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Evolution needs to be tossed out and creation needs to tossed out! So that way you guys will shut up about it! A child should not be forced to study a theory which the parents detest! In fact if economic reasons force me to send my child to PS, I will monitor his classes and divert him from having to learn anything about it! Sure I will tell him about it, and he is more than on his own to make his own personal choices! I can't even believe people feel evolution is an option!



I think that's a great idea. Less competition to us.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2004 :  07:56:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rubicon95 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Then I'm glad you now do.




You did realize I was being sarcastic.

There has been a persistant belief that education should build self esteem not well knowledge.

In one of my links, a teacher felt that using a red pen to mark wrong answers. It made the students feel they got it wrong. WTF?!?!

That is the attitude that has to be fought. Not everyone should go to college. Trade schools are valid institutions.

It's just PC and cultural Marxism.


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LordofEntropy
Skeptic Friend

USA
85 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2004 :  08:00:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit LordofEntropy's Homepage Send LordofEntropy a Private Message
Yay for yet another person who cannot differentiate between factual evolution and theoretical evolution.

Went to public schools my entire life and I currently attend a state supported college. I've never once been taught we evolved from monkeys. However, I've been shown plenty of clear cut cases of evolution that have taken place in the last 30 years.

Read mosquito populations and DDT.

Read MRSA, Methicillin-Resistant staphylococcus aureus. Among other bacteria that are now completely resistant to any of our anti-biotics.

Plenty of other cases out there, with plenty of empirical evidence.

Entropy just isn't what it used to be.
Edited by - LordofEntropy on 12/11/2004 08:02:43
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2004 :  08:58:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Remember Evolutionist evolved from monkies! Christians, Jews and Islam are created from the hand of God. So why not allow those who beleive in God study how we are made.


And if some crackpot idiot walked around noting his belief that humans were created by hyper-intelligent aliens 10,000 years ago, should we start teaching that, too?

quote:
Why do we have to believe in your unprovable theory? Do as you wish and study what you like. My children will never step foot in a public school.


Really? Never? Maybe there is a god!

quote:
Evolution needs to be tossed out and creation needs to tossed out! So that way you guys will shut up about it! A child should not be forced to study a theory which the parents detest! In fact if economic reasons force me to send my child to PS, I will monitor his classes and divert him from having to learn anything about it! Sure I will tell him about it, and he is more than on his own to make his own personal choices! I can't even believe people feel evolution is an option!
So if a parent thinks that gravity is the result of, say, the magic of little gnomes, you'd support their objection to a child's taking a physics class? My guess is that you only support the above when it concerns your stance on creationism. And as for your kids and learning evolution-- if you teaching evolution ar you understand it then of course they'll reject it! Only a fool would buy into your presentation of life's diversity on this planet. Hell, creationism is pure science compared to your flawed notion of evolution!
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 12/11/2004 09:01:05
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