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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  14:51:45  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Since I have come to this forum I have talked about Ghosts. My favorite subject. I have been researching ghosts for more that 20 years. My fascination with them beagn when I was a little girl. I believe that my house was haunted. Unexplained noises like footsteps in my parents room when no one is there.{that room still produces phenomenon to this day} Voices being heard when no one was there. Cold spots, tappings on shoulders, animals barking at some unseen thing. While my family had some skeletons in the closet we were all not hallucinating.
I have studied and researched the history of Ghosts and How Science became involved in the late 1800's. I have given numerous lectures, tours, and have had numerous experiences.
But What actually is A ghost?
Webster says:
Etymology: Middle English gost, gast, from Old English gAst; akin to Old High German geist spirit, Sanskrit heda anger
1 : the seat of life or intelligence : SOUL <give up the ghost>
2 : a disembodied soul; especially : the soul of a dead person believed to be an inhabitant of the unseen world or to appear to the living in bodily likeness

But what does all that mean? Do we Survive death?
Some would say yes...
Some would say dead is dead...
Some would say I am not sure.... Could be....
Humanity has always questioned what happens after death....

So what is a Ghost Guys?
Share your stories....
I will share some of mine....
You have heard my theories... You can basically understand my thoughts, my threads...
but I am learning just like you.....

R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  14:59:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
Ghost: An unsubstantiated imaginary entity, unsopported by reliable verifiable evidence as to its actual existence. An explanation for natural phenomena accepted by the gullible.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  15:07:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
What natural explanation do you have?What event are you applying it to?
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  15:21:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

What natural explanation do you have?What event are you applying it to?



This has been explained in a previous thread.

The only thing presented that approaches scientific testing means are predicated on the assumption that high gauss readings and cold spots are indicative of ghosts. There are natural explainations which are more likely.

Don't even bring up the testimony of trance mediums as they are anectdotal at best and the workings of mental illness or fraud at worst.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  15:30:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Not even talking about "mediums" Although some theories suggest that maybe we the living are mediums to the dead. and I am not talking about Spiritualism. Because an anwser might most likely be....
does not mean it is....
If you don't understand what I mean that you should look up and do some research on theories of ghosts...
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  15:34:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
What natural explanation do you have?What event are you applying it to?


My definitiong applies to the whole concept of ghosts.

Natural explanations include drafts, noises made by those drafts as the air passes through narrow passages, the sounds that most buildings make as they settle or wind forces are applied, swamp gas, and fog, to name a few. But the most plausible and common natural explanations include an overactive imagination, a desire to believe in the supernatural, and a failure to apply critical thought.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  15:37:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
I really am enjoying this post. First Storm comes here saying that she has evidence for ghosts. Then she comes up with theories about what a ghost is. Now she is asking what is a ghost.

Do you see the problem here Storm. You said you had evidence, you said you had theories, but you don't even have a freaking definition?

What is a ghost to you, Storm? You have been asked quite a few times, I have yet to see an answer.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 12/21/2004 15:38:13
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  15:53:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
A ghost to me? That depends on the situation. It is an apparition full body or body part of what was once a living human. Residue, energy, life force, of a human that once walked the earth. Is it the conscious living being as it once was living? Depends on the situation. But most likely just residue of left over energy from a deceased person. Natural explanations.
Maybe you should do some research on Ghosts...
You will see that ghosts are not just associated with the conscious living soul of a dead person.
I know what I define as a ghost...
I am asking you all what YOU think...
Through numerous threads I have discussed the possibilites the impossibilities. Through that you could pick up what I believe. It's not rocket science.
You come here telling me it's natural explanations what evidence do you have of this?
I never proclaimed any of the phenomenon was not natural...
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  15:59:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
As I stated before; the only 'ghost' that I've ever seen in 65 years of kicking around in this life was a trick of the light and the misty rain.

I have encountered exactly no evidence, in spite story-tellers, preachers, Hollywood, internet theoriests, and bullshitters with funky photos, to bolster any sort supernatural entity, be it ghosts, gods, goblins or the grinch. While I might keep the faint, indeed miniscule possibility in mind, I think I can positivly state that ghosts simply ain't on.

Ghostbusters was a fun flick, though.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  16:08:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
But isn't that because your teacher told you? Please Filthy tell the story again it is a good one? Do you think all the sightings of ghost at Gettysburg are mist and fog, Hallucinations, residual energy.
On a different note I must sighn off. Am going to Puppy training class. Although my puppy is 70lbs!!!!
Be back at 10:00p
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  19:10:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

But isn't that because your teacher told you? Please Filthy tell the story again it is a good one? Do you think all the sightings of ghost at Gettysburg are mist and fog, Hallucinations, residual energy.
On a different note I must sighn off. Am going to Puppy training class. Although my puppy is 70lbs!!!!
Be back at 10:00p

I was never in one of Mr. Godwin's classes. He was a friend and mentor, and a really nasty checkers opponent. He and his wife were retired and wanted to go to Arizona; talked of it often, but never made it.

I didn't believe that the apparition I saw a was a ghost even when I first saw it, although I was startled by it. One thing he taught me was the beginnings of critical thinking. When I asked him about the soldier, his explanation made sense. But it sent me back several times that year to see for myself. And a cold, wet business it was too, on the motorcycle.

I've no doubt that the soldier no longer appears at the crossing on wet, misty nights. Surely both the road and the lighting have changed, and extinguished him. I consider it a loss.

I remember well that there were some folks that would by-pass that crossing, even on a clear night.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25997 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  20:31:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

A ghost to me? That depends on the situation. It is an apparition full body or body part of what was once a living human.
Since "apparition" means "ghost-like figure," you've just said,
[A ghost] is [a ghost-like] full body or body part of what was once a living human.
Since this is a circular definition, it is less than helpful.
quote:
Residue, energy, life force, of a human that once walked the earth. Is it the conscious living being as it once was living? Depends on the situation. But most likely just residue of left over energy from a deceased person. Natural explanations.
Maybe you should do some research on Ghosts...
You will see that ghosts are not just associated with the conscious living soul of a dead person.
As far as I can tell, you've just told us that a ghost is either the conscious living soul of a dead person, or the unconcious "residue" of a dead person. How does one tell them apart?
quote:
I know what I define as a ghost...
I am asking you all what YOU think...
Through numerous threads I have discussed the possibilites the impossibilities. Through that you could pick up what I believe. It's not rocket science.
[...]
I never proclaimed any of the phenomenon was not natural...
It is because of things like that that I asked you three times in another thread "what is an apparition." If you want us to talk to you in a reasonable manner, it is important that we know what you mean by certain words. It has been clear to me that when I believe I've got a grasp on what you think, it turns out that I am wrong.

We're not playing "I've got a secret" out in the schoolyard, Storm. Just give us your definition(s).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  20:51:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
A ghost to me? That depends on the situation. It is an apparition full body or body part of what was once a living human. Residue, energy, life force, of a human that once walked the earth. Is it the conscious living being as it once was living? Depends on the situation. But most likely just residue of left over energy from a deceased person.


What evidence do you have that any of this is true? I have given you multiple references about energy, which you obviously either haven't read, didn't understand, forgot, or refuse to acknowledge because they contradict your bizarre notions of energy. Until and unless you educate yourself, every time you post something about energy you merely confirm your complete and utter cluelessness in this area.

quote:
Through numerous threads I have discussed the possibilites the impossibilities. Through that you could pick up what I believe. It's not rocket science.



No, it certainly is not rocket science (not that you would understand rocket science even if the ghost of Wernher freakin' von Braun personally explained it to you). Rocket science is based on actual scientific fields of study, such as physics and chemistry. What you believe, on the other hand, seems to be a stupefyingly insipid conglomeration of nonsense.

quote:
You come here telling me it's natural explanations what evidence do you have of this?



You claim there is such a thing as "residue of left over energy from a deceased person" (whatever the fuck that means), but you can't think of a single natural explanation for something like a cold draft in an old house? And when given the choice between the natural explanation and the unnatural, why would you choose the unnatural? It may be more fun, but the overwhelming odds are that it is the wrong explanation, so the one that relies on natural causes is the default explanation until evidence shows otherwise. Again, show some evidence to support an explanation of a phenomenon before you claim that it may be true. Otherwise all you have is baseless speculation.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2004 :  21:15:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
I am asking you all what YOU think...


What we think does not matter in this situation. You come here talking about ghosts. We must know what you mean when you say the word. If that explaination doesn't work for you, then just try by example.

The word "ghost", to me, means any football player who has the number 21 on his jersey. Now lets talk about "ghosts" by my definition, Storm.

Obviously that is absurd because you did not come here to talk about football, you came here to talk about your definition of ghost, not mine.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 12/21/2004 21:16:25
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2004 :  08:29:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Not even talking about "mediums" Although some theories suggest that maybe we the living are mediums to the dead. and I am not talking about Spiritualism. Because an anwser might most likely be....
does not mean it is....
If you don't understand what I mean that you should look up and do some research on theories of ghosts...




And herein lies the major problem with your arguementation style.

The ghost hunting groups never look for natural causes to the phenomenon that they experience. The frauds....I mean investigators I have had contact with through watching television, reading books, and meeting them personally have never tried eliminating natural phenomenon and have no justification to equate high gauss readings or temperature changes as evidence of ghosts.

I've done extensive research on ghosts. But, yet again instead of offering EVIDENCE or SOURCES, you try to invalidly shift the burden of proof on us saying we need to research the subject. No, we don't. You are the claimant, therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Well verlch junior, shall we compile a litany of unsupported assertations by you that you can ignore at your leisure or are you actually going to address the issues put to you with something other than "you people need to research this for yourselves".

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2004 :  08:38:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Since I have come to this forum I have talked about Ghosts. My favorite subject. I have been researching ghosts for more that 20 years. My fascination with them beagn when I was a little girl. I believe that my house was haunted. Unexplained noises like footsteps in my parents room when no one is there.{that room still produces phenomenon to this day} Voices being heard when no one was there. Cold spots, tappings on shoulders, animals barking at some unseen thing. While my family had some skeletons in the closet we were all not hallucinating.
I have studied and researched the history of Ghosts and How Science became involved in the late 1800's. I have given numerous lectures, tours, and have had numerous experiences.
But What actually is A ghost?
Webster says:
Etymology: Middle English gost, gast, from Old English gAst; akin to Old High German geist spirit, Sanskrit heda anger
1 : the seat of life or intelligence : SOUL <give up the ghost>
2 : a disembodied soul; especially : the soul of a dead person believed to be an inhabitant of the unseen world or to appear to the living in bodily likeness

But what does all that mean? Do we Survive death?
Some would say yes...
Some would say dead is dead...
Some would say I am not sure.... Could be....
Humanity has always questioned what happens after death....

So what is a Ghost Guys?
Share your stories....
I will share some of mine....
You have heard my theories... You can basically understand my thoughts, my threads...
but I am learning just like you.....


I don't believe in ghosts. I think ghost stories are the result of imperfect human senses receiving data that doesn't make sense. The result is confusion and fear. But the source is not a ghost, it's the flawed human brain/sensory system.

-Chaloobi

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