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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 12/14/2004 : 16:35:57
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is anyone an Anomalists out there? Is there a difference between Anomalistic and Skeptic? Check out this website
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/home.htm
I just finish reading these articles
Anomalistics - Dogmatism in Science
Click on...
Feedback would be appreciated
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Storm |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 17:01:39 [Permalink]
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Just browsing through that site was pretty amusing. It never ceases to amaze me how often the woo-woo's will use some derivitave of "skepticism" to try and make themselves sound more credible.
This was just to funny.
quote:
There are several theories that should explain the cause and content of NDE. The physiologic explanation: the NDE is experienced as a result of anoxia in the brain, possibly also caused by release of endomorphines, or NMDA receptor blockade.
In our study all patients had a cardiac arrest, they were clinically dead, unconscious, caused by insufficient blood supply to the brain because of inadequate blood circulation, breathing, or both. If in this situation CPR is not started within 5-10 minutes, irreparable damage is done to the brain and the patient will die. According to this theory, all patients in our study should have had an NDE, they all were clinical dead due to anoxia of the brain caused by inadequate blood circulation to the brain, but only 18% reported NDE
The writer obviously doesn't understand even the basics of critical thinking or the scientific method. It's really amazing that somebody could come up with those two paragraphs and pretend to be objectively investigating.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 17:31:31 [Permalink]
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Explain more. I was talking about the Anomolies articlesI did not see the NDE articles so explain more.
Here are two of my favorite sayings from these articles:
An absence of Evidence does not constitute Evidence of Absence
An anomoly is Extraordinary only relative to what we view as ordinary |
Storm |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 17:56:07 [Permalink]
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| Absence of evidence is not evidence of abscence... Carl Sagan, Cosmos, no? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 19:13:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
is anyone an Anomalists out there? Is there a difference between Anomalistic and Skeptic? Check out this website
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/home.htm
I just finish reading these articles
Anomalistics - Dogmatism in Science
Click on...
Feedback would be appreciated
Hi, Storm. I read through the article you mentioned. Unfortunately, it's not very interesting. This is because it amounts to a 'he-said-she-said' piece. For instance, in this article, we read:[quote]Blackmore reported 29 experiments completed over this two-year period, of which 21 were eventually published as separate experiments in five parapsychology journal papers. Seven of these experiments produced statistically significant results. Although these experiments form the basis of Blackmore's claim of “failing to find the paranormal”, the odds against 7 successes out of 21 happening by chance are over 20,000 to one!
So, how does Blackmore reconcile the fact of 7 successful experiments out of 21 with her often-repeated claim that her own research led her to become a skeptic? Simple: results from successful experiments were dismissed as due to flaws in the experiment, yet study quality was simply ignored when the results were nonsignificant. There are many design flaws that can lead to false positive results, but there are also many that can lead to false negatives, such as inadequate sample size (low statistical power), inappropriate sampling, and so forth./quote
We have no way of actually knowing if Blackmore is correct in her evaluation of the experiment in question, nor do we know if the author (Chris Carter (no, not that Christ Carter) is valid in his objections to her research. In short, we just don't know.
My guess is that she's right and he's wrong. After all, if there were such a thing as telepathy (or whatever), why hide it? Indeed, how can you hide it?
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 19:31:38 [Permalink]
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| I think all of us well at least most of us has had numerous telepathic experiences. I know that I continue to have them. Sometimes more on one day than others. Why is that? Random chance? I don't think so. What I am not sure. But I also believe there is significant evidence in PSI. Why hide the implications of telepathy? Think of what could happen if everyone could read everyones mind. Although I believe some can, there are anomolies in every field. |
Storm |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 20:16:19 [Permalink]
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I'm stunned. It's almost pointless to even comment on what you've written. Still...
quote:
I think all of us well at least most of us has had numerous telepathic experiences. I know that I continue to have them. Sometimes more on one day than others. Why is that? Random chance? I don't think so.
Huh?!? Really? I don't have "numerous telepathic experiences." When you "have" such experiences, what do you mean? Do you read the mind of the guy next to you in line at the local deli? Do you know he's going to order pastrami on rye before he orders? More importantly, can you prove it? I doubt it, else the results would appear in peer-reviewed journals all over the place-- your conspiracy articles not withstanding.
quote:
What I am not sure. But I also believe there is significant evidence in PSI.
And, as we've asked time and again, can you cite proof? Sadly, I expect we'll get the same reply: read between the lines and do our own homework. *yawn* Honestly-- I've tried to find some proof, but sadly I can't find anything that's convincing. Care to provide a link?
quote:
Why hide the implications of telepathy? Think of what could happen if everyone could read everyones mind. Although I believe some can, there are anomolies in every field.
This doesn't make any sense. The article you cited suggested that there is psi, but that the main stream refuses to accept it. I'm asking why they'd deliberately hide the reality such an amazing field of science-- indeed, it would sponsor years and years of research. It's guarenteed money for a career's worth of work. Why hide it?
Your answer that I should "think of what could happen if everyone could read everyones mind" doesn't get to the point. Again, why hide it?
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 22:20:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
I think all of us well at least most of us has had numerous telepathic experiences. I know that I continue to have them. Sometimes more on one day than others. Why is that? Random chance? I don't think so.
Huh?!? Really? I don't have "numerous telepathic experiences." When you "have" such experiences, what do you mean? Do you read the mind of the guy next to you in line at the local deli? Do you know he's going to order pastrami on rye before he orders? More importantly, can you prove it? I doubt it, else the results would appear in peer-reviewed journals all over the place-- your conspiracy articles not withstanding.
What I think Storm really meant was that many of us have had numerous experiences which could be explained by telepathy. That's a far cry from telepathic. If I think its going to rain, and it rains, that would be, by Storm's definition, a telepathic experience. If I say the same thing as someone else at the same time, that would be a "telepathic experience." Of course, this definition confuses correlation with causation.
Storm correlation does not equal causation. Show causation, then you have a case.
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Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 22:56:04 [Permalink]
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Storm, if I'm thinking that I should call my Mom right now and the phone rings with my Mom on the other end; would that be telepathy between her and I? BTW, the answer is NO it would not. Would it be "Really Weird”? Again NO. How many times have people answered the phone and said "That's really weird, I was just thinking about you". Guess what....it's not weird at all, and it means absolutely nothing. We only know so many people. We think about those people more than other people. We call them, they call us, and every once in a while the two (thinking about and calling) coincide together and we think its "SO WEIRD". God damn people are ignorant. Think people...
Ever think about a hot movie star and then that movie star called you right then....I'm guessing NO! Oh that's right, you wouldn't have telepathy with someone you don't know very well...cripes! How stupid of me. I need a drink. Wait....that's weird I was just thinking about having a drink!!! Alert the media, I just had a telepathic moment with myself! It works! It really works!
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 00:47:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Explain more. I was talking about the Anomolies articlesI did not see the NDE articles so explain more.
The author is deliberatly using a straw-man argument in the paragraphs I quoted.
I'll quote them again for convenience....
quote:
There are several theories that should explain the cause and content of NDE. The physiologic explanation: the NDE is experienced as a result of anoxia in the brain, possibly also caused by release of endomorphines, or NMDA receptor blockade.
In our study all patients had a cardiac arrest, they were clinically dead, unconscious, caused by insufficient blood supply to the brain because of inadequate blood circulation, breathing, or both. If in this situation CPR is not started within 5-10 minutes, irreparable damage is done to the brain and the patient will die. According to this theory, all patients in our study should have had an NDE, they all were clinical dead due to anoxia of the brain caused by inadequate blood circulation to the brain, but only 18% reported NDE
The author states that 18% of people in the test group experiences a NDE.
The author states, that according to the "physiologic explanation" that ALL people in these circumstances should experience the same thing.
This fails to consider many variables, and it assumes (without explanation or reference to support the assertion) that every person should respond the same way to similair circumstances. This is a patently false assumption, and it's the basis for the author's assertion that NDE are not caused by the "physiologic explanation".
and on and on and on....
The entire article, and the entire site, is riddled with this failure to comprehend basic logic and scientific method.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 06:19:08 [Permalink]
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| Yet another bomb from Storm, whats next? We havent thwarted magnetic cures in awhile or Graphology, did you know that big loop in the j in your signature means you are the next Hitler , with halotosis no less. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 11:40:23 [Permalink]
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| I apologize if I tend to get a little belligerent. But some posters just seem to bring it out in me. Apparently an utter lack of rational thinking is a big pet peeve of mine...go figure. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 13:41:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I think all of us well at least most of us has had numerous telepathic experiences. I know that I continue to have them. Sometimes more on one day than others. Why is that?...
Many people have noticed satellites moving straight overhead just after dusk, and assumed these objects are "UFOs". (i.e. alien spacecraft.) Some have even been startled by the "Noss Triads" (a triangle of three lights moving across the sky) and they have assumed these objects are orbiting aliens. The idea that these are man-made objects doesn't come up. One can even go to websites that tell specifically what satellites are being observed, and when to see them again.
"Anomolists" have been around a long time. As far back as the 1890s, astronomers and other scientists who made the newspapers would receive letters from folks termed in those days "Paradoxers". The "Paradoxers" could not accept any explanation from an authorized source or a theory that could be independently tested. They were instead drawn to the most extraordinary explanations. I guess it was more exciting for them as they didn't have to bother with the math, the research, observations and critical thinking.
What are termed "telepathic experiences" - while not even defined in this thread, are most likely "thoughts" originating in your mind but quickly applied to metaphors of outside experiences. The "thoughts" seem to come from on high or from elsewhere. But they don't. (That's just one possible explanation, but the point is to thinking critically about something rather than simply accept a mumbo jumbo description because it sounds cool.) These "telepathic experiences" might also be related to a somewhat rare term in psychology; "spontaneous divination" which means instantly seeing "divine meaning" in something observed. Not just "Jesus in a tortilla" but more subtly and mundanely, for example: "I looked out the window and a dove flew away – gosh - that means I should pay the electrical bill today."
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 19:04:43 [Permalink]
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I never thought my threads were bombs. My main interest was to hear what you all thought on the threads I started. You obviously found them interesting enough to respond more than once each time it is no doubt that you have your beliefs and I have mine and you might not want to call them beliefs but in all reality they are. One thing that we have in common is the search for the truth concerning ancedotal phenomenon called ghosts, psi, ufo's, etc. Most of us here that have talked to me through my threads have had experiences involving some of this phenomenon. You want to call it random chance, imagination, psychological delusion. I disagree . That is not a bomb. But other than lack of evidence I have shown This thread was really meant to discuss Anomolist vs. Skeptic. What is the difference what are the similarities. What are you?
Oh and by the way Ricky I am a Woman not a Man it's simple just read my profile, it's not rocket science |
Storm |
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