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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2004 : 04:44:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
I think I found where Storm gets all his information.
Interesting site. I found one good article on evolution and AiG. And some pretty outrageous stuff as well.
quote:
"Blasphemy" comes before "Science" in the dictionary
Some years ago the Australian geologist Professor Ian Plimer wrote a book about creationism called "Telling Lies for God". On a Sunday night (May 31, 2003) I went to a meeting where someone from the Answers in Genesis Ministry did just that thing. The speaker started out by saying that he wasn't there to rubbish "evolutionists" and atheists because everyone was entitled to an opinion. He went on to, among other things, accuse the theory of evolution of being responsible for abortion, homosexuality, divorce, war and most of the other "ills" of the world. We were told that we would be shown scientific evidence that would completely refute and rout evolution and the false science on which it was based, and that this evidence would lead ineluctably to the conclusion that the Earth and the universe in which it sits are only about 6,000 years old.
Storm:
quote:
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I never thought my threads were bombs. My main interest was to hear what you all thought on the threads I started. You obviously found them interesting enough to respond more than once each timeit is no doubt that you have your beliefs and I have mine and you might not want to call them beliefs but in all reality they are. One thing that we have in common is the search for the truth concerning ancedotal phenomenon called ghosts, psi, ufo's, etc. Most of us here that have talked to me through my threads have had experiences involving some of this phenomenon. You want to call it random chance, imagination, psychological delusion. I disagree . That is not a bomb. But other than lack of evidence I have shown This thread was really meant to discuss Anomolist vs. Skeptic. What is the difference what are the similarities. What are you?
I have no beliefs, nor do I readly disbelieve anything. Further, I have no faith. All I have is a little knowledge and a lot of curiosity. The knowledge is backed up with facts and experience, and I am always looking for more.
As Chippewa has pointed out, a paranormal answer is a lot easier and more fun than an investigation, which, if it's a dry hole, the honest investigator must say, "I don't know."
But not knowing does not mean that the paranormal answer is the correct one, and those who put it forth are merely spouting unsupported blather. Nor is it incorrect. It simply means that not enough evidence is available to reach a considered conclusion.
Evidence, Storm. Evidence is all! If you find me walking around missing my left thumbnail, that's a pretty good sign that there's a hammer involved somewhere. Add to that the fact that you know I am in the process of building a tractor shed and am too broke (or cheap) to hire a real carpenter, then the hammer becomes much more likely. And if you espyed my missing thumbnail at the feed store where I was buying a few pounds of sixteen penny nails, then you'd be confident in coming up to me and saying, "Hah, ya dumb fuck! Smacked yer thumb again, din't ya?" Of course, it still wouldn't be 100% until I verifyed it.
On the other hand (snicker) if my right thumbnail is off or wearing a deep and lovely shade of purple, and you know that I am right-handed, there is probably no hammer involved at all, whether I'm buying nails or not. If you really want to know how my thumb came to such a sorry estate, you must investigate.
You may start by buying me lunch. Yes, lunch is always a good place to start an investigation. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2004 : 06:54:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
One thing that we have in common is the search for the truth concerning ancedotal phenomenon called ghosts, psi, ufo's, etc. Most of us here that have talked to me through my threads have had experiences involving some of this phenomenon.
Huh? Though I haven't kept up with all your threads, this is not the impression I get. Indeed, I'd say "most of us here" have no experience with ghosts, psi, UFOs, etc!! |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2004 : 07:08:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Sorry Storm, I always do that. Just ask Siberia.
Yep, he does |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:03:18 [Permalink]
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Well filthy you are correct not knowing does not constitute paranormal but it does mean it is not either. The fact is that we do not know. Although we are very aware of the existence of certain paranormal phenomenon or Anamoly. We except for Cuniformist have had experiences with what has been deemed paranormal. Many others have also experienced. I have experienced unidentified flying objects but that does not mena they were space aliens it does not mean they were not. We know the statistics of there being other forms of life similiar to us. We do not know how long distance space travel works. But may be they do andn every so often we see these thiings. Also let us not forget our government must expirement with the everchanging technology of aviation. Imagine when the Stelath was being tested well it had to fly somewhere. It would look like an unidentified flying object to those unaware.
Filthy my friend if you have no beliefs no disbelifs and no faith what do you have man???? A little knowledge and lot of curiosity From your threads filthy I think you have much more than that |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:14:44 [Permalink]
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We never said UFOs dont exist, just that they are quite normal and terrestrial UFOs. To think otherwise without very solid evidence is pointless and not something we like to do as skeptical minded individuals.
"We except cuniformist" what does this mean?
The statististics on life forms are extemely vague and guess dependant. And how can we add a variable for long distance travel when we currently think it is impossible? Your conclusions go waay to far with the data available as usual. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:19:28 [Permalink]
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One day I was terribly shocked at some bright lights flashing in my face out of nowhere, through my window. I was creeped out, until I leaned back and realized it was just an unusually bright moon. So now I've scavanged my poor, semi-asleep brain for something weird that might've happened. Strange feelings late at night? Most likely paranoia derived from one too many horror movies. Weird lights? The consequences of living in a metropolis. Strange events, such as receiving an e-mail (I'm not a phone person) from someone I was thinking of? Coincidence. Mmm.
Nope, no extraordinary events on this side of the screen, either. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:40:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Although we are very aware of the existence of certain paranormal phenomenon or Anomaly.
?? Who's WE? quote:
We except for Cuniformist have had experiences with what has been deemed paranormal.
I have never had a paranormal experience...ever...in 37 years. quote:
I have experienced unidentified flying objects but that does not mean they were space aliens it does not mean they were not.
Seeing an unidentified object in NOT a paranormal event! It's simply a flying object that YOU can not identify! That's all, nothing more. quote:
We know the statistics of there being other forms of life similar to us.
We have NO statistics on life forms similar to us. quote:
We do not know how long distance space travel works.
But we do know that it does not go faster than light! (Remember Einstein) Which is a very good indication of how much traveling is going on out there....not much. quote:
But may be they do and every so often we see these things.
But maybe we don't so why even give it the time of day until you have some REAL evidence. quote:
Also let us not forget our government must experiment with the ever-changing technology of aviation. Imagine when the Stealth was being tested well it had to fly somewhere. It would look like an unidentified flying object to those unaware.
Sure it might...but that is not a paranormal event.
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:51:13 [Permalink]
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Exactly I never said a UFO was a parnormal thing. Do scientist not believe that with the vastness of the universe there is no other life forms? Is not there more chance that there is? What if these light forms are more enligtened or maybe there technology and atmosphere enable them to travel. Maybe the are only experimenting much like we are on our missions to the Mars? How are you defining paranormal? In thirty seven years not one? Excuse me but how bioring? We are those who have had experiences leki filthy with ghost, like ricky with under the bed, like those who have had some other weird experiences. |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 11:39:53 [Permalink]
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| Weird experiences are not PARANORMAL experiences and my life is FAR from boring. The question is how are YOU defining paranormal? I have seen UFO's...guess what...I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE...PERIOD. Does that mean I should jump to the conclusion they were traveling aliens for christ sake! If something unexplainable happens to me I try to figure out what it was. If there is not enough information to figure it out then I simply leave it unexplained. I never jump to the conclusion that it must have been paranormal/supernatural. Now if something ever happens that appears to be supernatural AND I ALSO HAVE HARD EVIDENCE to back up the supernatural explanation then, and only then, will I accept the evidence that paranormal things do in fact exist. The REAL world is more FACINATING, EXCITING & EXCILERATING than any fabricated, concocted, & delusional reality. The Big Bang! Evolution! Quarks! Supernovas and Black holes that eat suns producing GRB's (Gamma Ray Bursts) and just hope they never produce a negatively charged stranglet in one of those Super Colliders because then we are all doomed! |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 13:45:58 [Permalink]
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| ^to clarify, stop lumping us into your paranormal experiences because we dont think like you. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 15:05:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Exactly I never said a UFO was a parnormal thing. Do scientist not believe that with the vastness of the universe there is no other life forms? Is not there more chance that there is?
Yes, science does believe it's possible that there's a lot of life out there. Actually, it's much more likely there is. There are hundreds of known exoplanets. Some of them may or may not have life.
However, that's far, far away to conclude there's intelligent life out there. Think about it. The so-called intelligent life's very, very rare in our little tiny hum-drum planet. There are billions of unicelular beings, millions of insects, not as many fishes, not as many plants, arthropods, molusks, etc, and only one species that looks up and says, "wow, that's neat, I wonder if there are more like us out there?"
It's a mistake people often do, to imply evolution's goal is intelligence. It isn't. Evolution has no goal. We can assume things evolve in other planets, as we can assume the laws of physics are the same everywhere in our universe.
quote:
What if these light forms are more enligtened or maybe there technology and atmosphere enable them to travel. Maybe the are only experimenting much like we are on our missions to the Mars?
It's possible. Let's assume there's intelligent life out there. Space's big. Very, very big. Then they'd have to find us.
I'm not saying there ain't aliens out there. I just think that assuming they're hovering over us, without a peep, kidnapping random people's a bit of far-fetched fantasy. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 17:05:25 [Permalink]
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Exactly but it does not meant that there is not intelligent life. Maybe evolution does not apply to these other life forms.
what proof do you have of the Supernatural. Who says evolution does not have a goal. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 17:36:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Exactly but it does not meant that there is not intelligent life. Maybe evolution does not apply to these other life forms.
what proof do you have of the Supernatural. Who says evolution does not have a goal.
But that's the whole point. There's no proof of the supernatural. There's no need to assume there's one.
We can assume that there may be life out there, and that some may be intelligent, because we've a precedent (us). Now, to assume there's a supernatural, with no proof whatsoever, is pure wishful thinking. You may think there's something more than coincidence, that there's something beyond, but that's it. Only speculation. Only your thought.
edited for spelling. spare the foreigner! |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 12/17/2004 17:37:45 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 19:10:36 [Permalink]
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Storm wrote:quote:
Well filthy you are correct not knowing does not constitute paranormal but it does mean it is not either. The fact is that we do not know.
Exactly. And a skeptic needs to learn to live with this sort of disappointing - but factual - answer. You, on the other hand, seem to want not knowing to be equivalent to pro-paranormal evidence. You definitely have romantic notions about ghosts, psi, UFOs, and who-knows-what else. After all, you seem to think that life without such things would be boring, just like many religious people feel that without God, the universe would contain no 'wonder'.
The reality is that reality contains all sorts of astonishing things, from how planes fly, to the way a fertilized egg grows into a child, all the way down to the common-sense-defying behaviour of subatomic particles. In my opinion, it is those people without the curiosity to examine such wonderous things who are doomed to boredom by the real world, and so seek to bring their fantasies to life to quell the tedium. It's sad, really. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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