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ShattenJagger
New Member
Canada
1 Post |
 Posted - 12/16/2004 : 22:00:38
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http://www.chemtrailcentral.com
I am posting this in the hopes that there is someone here who has done there homework on the subject and is able to assist me into introducing a plausible explanation for chemtrails to a co-worker of mine - who is mere days away from wearing a foil cap on his head full time.
The thing is he usually eats up every conspiracy theory he reads, and up until now I was batting 1.000 on debunking them. Just for calrification since there is a few theories regarding chemtrails, he latched on to the one where they are being spread to cause disease outbreaks in order to either a) fill the pockets of pharmacutical(sp?)companies and/or reduce global population to facilitate the beggining of the new world order(another conspiracy).
Any thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
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Better to be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 02:06:03 [Permalink]
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Found these anticrank pages on www.crank.net:
Contrails
Contrails, or 'Trails-CON?
Contrail Analysis
Maybe you can find something there.
"The thing about conspiracy literature is that it's perfect for stupid people who want to seem smart and ground their hatred in something completely mystical and confusing, and it's good for smart people who are too lazy to do their homework. People can't argue with it without possibly implicating themselves."
-- Marc Maron, The Jerusalem Syndrome
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 04:40:20 [Permalink]
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I can't improve on Star's references, but welcome to SFN, ShattenJagger!
Hoping your friend someday opens his eyes.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 08:53:37 [Permalink]
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| Anything is possible with the government we have seen the effects of Angent Orange, Pharmacutical companies, etc. Let us not forget that we gave smallpox to the indians purposefully. The possibility of chemtrails being germ warfare or population control is more believable than Roswell. Who do you think the government and Pharmacutical companies expirement on? Us and Animals. So as my deceased father would say Why Not? Personally I find chemtrails just to be the exhaust of flying machines. i.e. Airplane |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 09:19:32 [Permalink]
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| Storm and your friend would get along great. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 09:39:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Anything is possible with the government we have seen the effects of Angent Orange, Pharmacutical companies, etc. Let us not forget that we gave smallpox to the indians purposefully. The possibility of chemtrails being germ warfare or population control is more believable than Roswell. Who do you think the government and Pharmacutical companies expirement on? Us and Animals. So as my deceased father would say Why Not? Personally I find chemtrails just to be the exhaust of flying machines. i.e. Airplane
Interesting world view.
You realise that there are a lot of paranoid delusionacs with access to the internet and plenty of time on their hands. I'm not saying that it is but it could be the explanation.
Also, not all people employed by the government and pharmaceutical companies are evil sociopaths. Some of them even try to make life better for the rest of us. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 09:54:02 [Permalink]
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I agree Starman not everyone is evil or sociopaths. Just as all are not hallucinating when they experience ghosts. But the fact is some of these other evil things and hallucibnations happen. I wonder what sickness the soldiers will come home with this war. Is it all post traumatic stress? If man through stress can effect his body i.e. heartrate, blood pressure, ulcers is it probale to say that man can then heal his body as well. We have proof of the effects of stress on the mind and body but what of the opposite? Positive thinking, medetation, etc. Surely if one can effect the body cannot the other Gentlemen? |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:05:53 [Permalink]
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| Actually they now think low levels of sarin were responsible for gulf-war syndrome. If you give science time and actually read, it tends to work every time. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:11:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
If man through stress can effect his body i.e. heartrate, blood pressure, ulcers is it probale to say that man can then heal his body as well.
I'm pretty much sure this woman here can't. At least, not as far as some woo woo people would want us to believe. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 10:16:36 [Permalink]
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| So because people die, we can assume there must be a way to live forever. I like this method, It makes actual thinking optional. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 11:36:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
So because people die, we can assume there must be a way to live forever. I like this method, It makes actual thinking optional.
Actually, the whole idea of intelligently directed hauntuings (in stark contrast to replay hauntings) is predicated on the unconfirmed assumption of the existance of a "soul" or eternal part of ourselves.
Until such time as a "soul" can be proven and measured, ghosts will not be able to be proven nor measured. It delegates the existance of such things to conjecture.
Spiritually, I believe in the existance of both.
Scientifically, I have no evidence for either outside of anectdotal evidence and conclude that it is currently unprovable. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 11:52:47 [Permalink]
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Althought the belie that ghosts are souls of the dead lots of parapyschologist and investigators og ghosts do not. The more I think about the more I think it has to do with the energy and the decomposing body. The way our, human, energy has been used after we die. Maybe it the way of the energy mixes with theenvironment. Although the people look like those of the dead it is just the expelled energy that is left upon death. Depending on how the energy was expelled like in a murder, suicide, etc some traumatic event that it stays within the environment and gets replayed ie. Gettysburg. Are we going to say that all those ancedotal were just hallucinations, trick of light, etc. I do not think so. Conscious sould of the dead I do not think so. Expelled energy I think so. How it works is another matter one in which I hope to prove one day.
The fact that might look back at these nast things is the fact that these things did happen it is documented so the possibility of it being true is there although this is not my belief. But it would be foolish not to rule it out. Have you tested what is in chemtrails? If not than how would you know it was not. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 11:56:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ShattenJagger
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com
I am posting this in the hopes that there is someone here who has done there homework on the subject and is able to assist me into introducing a plausible explanation for chemtrails to a co-worker of mine - who is mere days away from wearing a foil cap on his head full time.
The thing is he usually eats up every conspiracy theory he reads, and up until now I was batting 1.000 on debunking them. Just for calrification since there is a few theories regarding chemtrails, he latched on to the one where they are being spread to cause disease outbreaks in order to either a) fill the pockets of pharmacutical(sp?)companies and/or reduce global population to facilitate the beggining of the new world order(another conspiracy).
Any thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Wecome to the board.
Starman pretty well answered the question on "chemtrails". There is one additional one your friend might pull out of his ass. That is a contrail (condensed water vapor through a jet engine) which appears like doughnuts on a rope.
It has been suggested that the US has been developing a new jet engine similar to the pulse jets of the German V1 "buzzbombs" to power a new class of hypersonic surveilance craft to replace the aging SR-71 Blackbird fleet. This is supposed to be "Project Aurora" or "Project Senior Citizen" and is alledgedly being tested out of the traditional home of Lockheed's Skunk Works (the same location the F-117 Nighthawk was developed), Grooms Lake. (aka Area 51)
http://www.danshistory.com/sr71.shtml
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/aurora.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 14:28:01 [Permalink]
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| Storm... what is energy to you? I know it's off-topic, but... oh well. Nevermind. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 20:00:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Althought the belie that ghosts are souls of the dead lots of parapyschologist and investigators og ghosts do not. The more I think about the more I think it has to do with the energy and the decomposing body. The way our, human, energy has been used after we die. Maybe it the way of the energy mixes with theenvironment. Although the people look like those of the dead it is just the expelled energy that is left upon death. Depending on how the energy was expelled like in a murder, suicide, etc some traumatic event that it stays within the environment and gets replayed ie. Gettysburg. Are we going to say that all those ancedotal were just hallucinations, trick of light, etc. I do not think so. Conscious sould of the dead I do not think so. Expelled energy I think so. How it works is another matter one in which I hope to prove one day.
You were asked to read up about energy, from physics resources. You obviously have not done so.
How a person dies has no effect upon the energy stored within his/her body at the time of death. Neither the quantity nor quality of the stored energy changes at the instant a person dies. If you want to "prove" the opposite, then please provide evidence that an "energy" exists which is not currently measurable by scientists, since none of the measurable energies behave as you suggest.
In other word, your "I think so" is nothing but wild speculation. It does not even rise to the level of "guess," much less "educated guess." And "hypothesis" is waaay out of the question. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2004 : 20:29:29 [Permalink]
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They aren't chemical trails, they are condensation trails, and are commonly produced when a jet's hot exhaust comes into contact with moist, cool air. They are as harmless as ordinary clouds.
It is simply another thing for paranoid people to latch on to. From the website you posted:quote:
The planes were still actively building the grid around the edges when we noticed it, and the first thing I did was have to laugh... It is so strangely "funny" in a way that this blatant cloud building goes on still un-noticed by apparently too many.
Can you feel the smugness and superiority dripping from these comments? Conspiracists love, strike that, need to feel like have access to some secret knowledge the rest of the planet is unaware of. It fills some vacuum in their life to feel as if they are fighting against a sinister power while the "sheep" of society go about oblivious to it all. It enables them to detatch themselves from the mundanity of everyday life, to feel different and above other people, since they are also "in on" this grand scheme. It also gives failures a way of justifying their failures, since things like success, money, jobs, and healthy relationships will be meaningless once people "wake up" to the sinister truth which has overshadowed our fragile existence all this time. They tell themselves they are actually concerned with only the "big" things that really matter.
In short, they are severely self-deluded. I'm not sure you can really convince your friend of anything he doesn't already want to believe. These conspiracies have long, convoluted scenarios that override just about any reasonable explanation you can offer.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/17/2004 20:36:54 |
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